In the light of your last few sentences, we could still get £50m for Kev.
(Gets coat)
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Manchester City Tactics - 2023/24
- Thread starter WallyA
- Start date
(Gets coat)
bobbyowenquiff
Well-Known Member
It's painful to think about really. KDB and Silva are our greatest ever players in my view but Pep amazes me because he always finds a way to make the whole team unit stronger. I just think the Rodri, Kovacic, Foden combination looks incredible. A mixture of strength, pace, and creativity. Not the best individually but the best unit.In the light of your last few sentences, we could still get £50m for Kev.
(Gets coat)
But Kev is not finished yet. I am sure he will be back for the business end of the season as usual. We have been blessed to have him in our team and hopefully he has a few years left (playing reduced games).
Have to disagree about Bernie, atleast until we know more abour squad depth.Great post. I agree that we look much more solid defensively with Rodri and Kovacic together. This will be great for the tough away matches in Europe and against the top six/seven PL clubs. I disagree about Bernardo. He may play deep in some matches but I think he will continue to play mostly number 8 or wide right. He did this well when KDB had a previous long lay-off. I think the midfield we saw on Saturday with Foden, Kovacic, and Rodri is fantastic. As good as it has ever been for City. These players match each other perfectly.
If we bring in Doku and an attacking player like Eze, then Bernardo as a #8 or winger will happen scarcely.
Pep now plays 2 midfielders deeper, with Rodri and Kovacic and there is currently 0 depth or rotation for them.
The attack has more options for 5 spots:
Haaland
Alvarez
Foden
Grealish
Doku
Palmer
Eze
+ Bobb, McAtee if needed.
None of these can play the Rodri or Kova role.
bobbyowenquiff
Well-Known Member
I can't see Doku or Eze keeping Bernie out of the team. For me the best current midfield is Foden, Kova, Rodri but Pep will always find a place for Bernie for the big matches. I agree that Bernie has played well in defensive roles in the past. Perhaps if Kovacic or Rodri was injured he will play there on occasions. But I think Bernado is light years better than Doku/Eze, Grealish, Alvarez, Palmer and am sure Pep thinks that as well.Have to disagree about Bernie, atleast until we know more abour squad depth.
If we bring in Doku and an attacking player like Eze, then Bernardo as a #8 or winger will happen scarcely.
Pep now plays 2 midfielders deeper, with Rodri and Kovacic and there is currently 0 depth or rotation for them.
The attack has more options for 5 spots:
Haaland
Alvarez
Foden
Grealish
Doku
Palmer
Eze
+ Bobb, McAtee if needed.
None of these can play the Rodri or Kova role.
You conveniently keep forgetting we have 0 depth for the midfield pair. Like nobody.I can't see Doku or Eze keeping Bernie out of the team. For me the best current midfield is Foden, Kova, Rodri but Pep will always find a place for Bernie for the big matches. I agree that Bernie has played well in defensive roles in the past. Perhaps if Kovacic or Rodri was injured he will play there on occasions. But I think Bernado is light years better than Doku/Eze, Grealish, Alvarez, Palmer and am sure Pep thinks that as well.
So unless your plan is to play Rodri and Kova every single game into the ground, you undestimate that Pep values the long game.
Maybe in big games he will play Bernie higher up to gain more control, but predominantly we play teams who are much weaker.
He wont play all 3 of Rodri, Kova and Bernie in these scenarios, 2 of them is enough, he will play more killers higher up.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 21,643
Someone posted a long and excellent article about Eddie playing outfield (it might have been you). I think we are seeing just the start of this and more and more he will become a flexible member of the back line and increasingly dictate our response to opposition press. His distribution, if anything, has gone up another notch. I can think of no other player on the planet that is as accurate over 70 yards. He is utterly unique.Doku transfer is basically complete.
Rumours of another attacking midfielder (possibly Eze) are also picking up.
This, in combination with our 3 games played, has made me want to write up something fascinating about what Pep is doing.
First things first, I will make a prediction of what I think Pep will do long term based on the 3 games, but Pep adapts literally all the time. Although he has some core principles I will try my best to discuss what I think his general plan will be.
Pep's Key Tactics This Season
1. Use Ederson more as an outfield player (False CB).
I've posted a long portion on Edersons' performance page, but to sum up, Ederson will act as another CB in build up because more and more teams are adopting the high press and Pep knows using a keeper as good as Ederson on the ball (best in the world) is extremely advantageous in going through the press.
Ederson operates between our 2 CBs to make a line of 3 players. Instead of the typical 3-2-5 we saw last season, it basically now becomes a 3-3-5, as we now see with Ederson there, one of the defenders pushes into midfield (Akanji/Stones). This becomes some what situational as this player (Akanji/Stones) might drop in the defensive line to drag opposition press and becomes a 4-2-5 as well (not often), but either way, the reason for this is quite clear.
If you use Ederson and 5 other players, those 6 can only be beaten by a press of 6 players. Our players are too good to lose ball retention in a 6v5 battle, usually strikers get around this by shadow marking one player, and doing a curved run to the goalie (cover 2 players at once). Isak at New Castle tried doing this, but I don't think it was successful.
The result of this is usually that:
a) The opposition does not bother pressing at all, they just sit back (Sevilla game). In this situation Ederson is not very useful as he will be too far away from his net. City is more wary of counters in these oppositions, usually why the 3-2-5 is used as without a goalie, you need a backline of 3 players now to cover the space behind.
b) The opposition does not commit to the press and leaves Ederson alone (Burnley did this alot), this means our whole team slowly pushes up until Ederson is pressed, which becomes
c) Ederson is pressed (Newcastle), there is a free man somewhere in City's formation. A half-space player is free or a wide player. Haaland's threat usually means 2 CB's mark him as well.
2. Focus more on Control with the Ball (Yes, even more), Defending without the Ball, Less Reliance on High Pressing
a) Something occurred to me watching Grealish against Newcastle, wow, Grealish runs alot in these games, and works really hard defensively. I completely understand the faith Pep had in playing him as a virtual Left wing back.
Now on the other wing was Walker. Who is faster and strong than Grealish, but simply not as much of a threat going forward other than being fast. I don't believe a player like Walker is necessary in most games, especially with 3 defenders behind him. But the team was tired and Pep was cautious of Newcastle's left sided threat.
When we dropped back to defend against Newcastle we turned into more of a 5-4-1 setup as a result.
I have never seen Pep make us defend so deep into a 5-4-1, 4-4-2 has been the most common one.
But more and more teams are learning how to play through a high press, with Pep adopting a more conservative press against Newcastle, especially on pressing traps which are smarter and energy efficient than high energy sprinting presses.
He placed the onus on Newcastle to attack, and since we have monster in the air, sitting back in a 5-4-1 means it was very hard for Newcastle to put a ball in our box. The second they failed an attempt, we capitalize to control the ball.
Newcastle would never commit too much when they eventually attacked, because if the ball turned over, we had 3 runners to counter attack which is too dangerous, so it was usually easy for us to outnumber and control the ball quickly in our end.
b) I think against lesser teams, Walker's defensive ability won't be as necessary, and I see Pep going to 2 wide wingers to break the low block.
Doku is a very good option for this as is Palmer imo. You want 1v1 dribblers in the wide spaces for this. This is no different to what we have been doing last season so how is this new?
Typically we played a 4-1-4-1 and asked a defender to be next to Rodri as a 3-2-4-1.
The new idea here is that now we have Kovacic. I'm gonna make a bold claim, but I think he is a better midfield partner to Rodri than Gundogan. Gundogan was better higher up, but Kovacic is better lower down.
Pep will still push a CB up (maybe not always as he may be way of counters) and go 2-3-5, which is slightly riskier against counter attacks than 3-2-5, but this is Pep basically telling the team to dominate control of the middle, the numbers and quality is there, then use the wings for 1v1s.
He did this in his time early on here, by utilizing two inverted fullbacks (another way to get a 2-3-5), but the personnel was never quite good enough: Delph, Zinchenko, always a player with some kind of negative quality in that role.
But with Kovacic, Rodri + 1 more from the defensive line (Stones, Akanji) I believe the balance is much better than previous years in terms of defenders plus ball retainers.
3. The Personnel to Make it Happen
It looks like Philips is either gone or not in Pep's plans, and with the lack of transfer activity/rumours in the defensive midfield position, I believe Bernardo will be rotating in the deeper positions. Here is how the squad looks:
View attachment 90985
This might look "Too Attacking" of a set-up, but this image is representing our set-up in possession against a low block.
Pep may opt not to push the CB up, and it is more 3-2-5 shaped.
Against teams he is more wary of he may use a back 4 instead with Walker wide right (he is an option there in the image) like he did against New Castle.
But in general, I think he will go all in to dominate control of the middle.
When the team defends, it looks like this as reference:
View attachment 90986
Gio Sugar
Well-Known Member
Lewis? I have a feeling that he will take more time at midfield since defence is full.You conveniently keep forgetting we have 0 depth for the midfield pair. Like nobody.
Lewis is more likely to play the defense into midfield overload role that Akanji or Stones do but as a fullback.Lewis? I have a feeling that he will take more time at midfield since defence is full.
But he might be trusted from the centre at the start, you may be right, but I think Pep would rather Bernie there for cover.
Maybe he will play all cup games in the middle?