Mancini Coaching Article by Peter North

[kinky's boots]

Could do with a spellcheck though ;-)

p.s. reaming defenders....? This is a family forum

 

[m7mcfc]

MH would be baffled

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I just had a flash back to nick.nikky's formation threads under Sven...

I'm not the guilty party here though it's almost identical, but you're actually spot on by proxy - Mancini incorporates the same exact defensive system we had under Sven (pressure and support) and even started out using 4-4-1-1 before scrapping it and venturing into another one of Sven's prefered system; the under England much scolded 4-3-1-2.


The one thing I didn't like about the article was for him to call it "catenaccio". In broad terms it was somewhat correct, but this is a mix of Rinus Michels, Sven's, Bob Houghton's/Roy Hodgson's (from their days at swedish 1st division), Antonio Herrara and Nils Liedholm's school of football which Sven used to garner success around Europe with an inferior Swedish team and later used to polish Benfica and Lazio (and more) into wonderfully organized sides. It transfered in it's initial form to Italian football via Nils Liedholm's proteges (Ancelotti, Capello, Trapattoni, Scala, Maldini, Baresi, Conti) and it got solidified by Sven's Houghton/Hodgson/Rinus Michels/Swedish mix.

That's why all of these guys - Sven, Mancini, Hodgson, Capello, Trapattoni, Ancelotti and Scala... all have a very similar brand of football. They're all intertwined and know each other on a personal level. In short:

*The Swedish/Italian mob - Capello was assistant coach under Liedholm and manager under him when he was chief advisor for Roma. Leidholm coached Milan. Trapattoni played with and trained under Liedholm. Both of em used Liedholm youth graduates Maldini and Baresi (Liedholm let them have their debutes at 16 and 17 respectively). Bruno Conti was given the nod at 19. Ancelotti at 20. Sven was handed the Roma job under Liedholm. Sven coached Ancelotti. Sven coached Mancini (also assistant coach under Sven). Both Sven and Mancini coached Sampdoria, Lazio and City. Ancelotti currently coaches Chelsea for Sven's pal Abramovich. Capello snagged the England job. Brian Kid worked for Sven, Brian kid works for Mancini... etc...

*The Swedish/Fulham mob - Bob Houghton was assistant to Bobby Robson at Ipswich. They played together at Fulham. Bobby R later managed Fulham. Houghton went to Sweden and Malmö FF where he took them to the European Cup finals. Through Houghton's advice Hodgson got hired by Halmstad where he introduced what he called the "English school of football". Later by Malmö. Hodgson coached Mancini's Inter. Hodgson coached the United Arab Emirates (hehe). Hodgson was on cue for the England job when they decided to go for Sven instead. Hodgson is back at Fulham, where it all started with Robson and Houghton, a job he executes for Fayed, with his new player Geovanni... etc...

So in reality it's not "Italian" football but a mixture of English(zonal defense and training application)/Swedish(team play. Zonal became mixed zonal or pressure and support)/Dutch football(total football)/Italian(catenaccio) - and it's initially mostly Sven's brand of football adopted by the "Gentlemans Club" and perfected through trade. Pure catenaccio is an entirely different thing.

And since Sven was the first to peice them all together, it should if anything, be called Svenaccio or something because what he did was to fuse all of it together into a perfect system as well as introducing it in both Portugal and Italy with great success. There'd been no Mourinho without a Sven... just as there would have been no Sven without a Lidholm or a Hodgson... or a Hodgson without a Houghton... or a Houghton without a Robson.

And there most certainly wouldn't have been a Mancini. Catenacio - it is not.


This also touches on another subject. Somehow all of this manages to pass over the pundits heads, but there are coaches that truly are worth more than others on so many levels. And Hodgson is one of those guys. He's connected with The Gentlemens Club. Just like Mancini.

Hughes, the arrogant twat, never got this. Cook, I'm sure, is still pretty clueless. The former City board certanly didn't know fuck all. But ADUG is on cue... Hodgson's United Arab Emirates pals... fucking ADUG... thank you Shinawatra...

Managers like Sven are in this sense is more than just managers. They are indeed a fucking Dons. When Sven calls his sheik friends (the real ones) or picks up the phone and gives his opinion on his former player Ancelotti, Kaka deal killer and Ronaldinho hirerer Ancelotti, to his buddy Abramovich - shit will happen.

You simply do not fuck with these guys. They all know each other. And they rule football behind the svenery.


It is impossible to describe how much the appointment of Mancini (or Sven at his time) really means and meant. Hughes was a fucking parenthesis in a job Sven got started. The money he spent, the gloating little prick, came about through Sven's connections. And now it's sorted. On and upwards.

Let's hope the board isn't as lax this time around...

Nicky I love that post.

Very very interesting and lots of food for thought.

 

[kippax_blueboy]

MH would be baffled

Exactly what I was thinking

No wonder the players were getting pissed off with Useless

I wonder if our players are upto understanding it all.

Sven is amazing a true football brain, may lack some of the personality to connect with the players but to think through all the tactics he is one of the best.

I love the thought of these great football minds meeting up to discuss it.

Is Vierra the next one to be allowed into this school of footballing science?

 

[kippax_blueboy]

I'm not the guilty party here though it's almost identical, but you're actually spot on by proxy - Mancini incorporates the same exact defensive system we had under Sven (pressure and support) and even started out using 4-4-1-1 before scrapping it and venturing into another one of Sven's prefered system; the under England much scolded 4-3-1-2.


The one thing I didn't like about the article was for him to call it "catenaccio". In broad terms it was somewhat correct, but this is a mix of Rinus Michels, Sven's, Bob Houghton's/Roy Hodgson's (from their days at swedish 1st division), Antonio Herrara and Nils Liedholm's school of football which Sven used to garner success around Europe with an inferior Swedish team and later used to polish Benfica and Lazio (and more) into wonderfully organized sides. It transfered in it's initial form to Italian football via Nils Liedholm's proteges (Ancelotti, Capello, Trapattoni, Scala, Maldini, Baresi, Conti) and it got solidified by Sven's Houghton/Hodgson/Rinus Michels/Swedish mix.

That's why all of these guys - Sven, Mancini, Hodgson, Capello, Trapattoni, Ancelotti and Scala... all have a very similar brand of football. They're all intertwined and know each other on a personal level. In short:

*The Swedish/Italian mob - Capello was assistant coach under Liedholm and manager under him when he was chief advisor for Roma. Leidholm coached Milan. Trapattoni played with and trained under Liedholm. Both of em used Liedholm youth graduates Maldini and Baresi (Liedholm let them have their debutes at 16 and 17 respectively). Bruno Conti was given the nod at 19. Ancelotti at 20. Sven was handed the Roma job under Liedholm. Sven coached Ancelotti. Sven coached Mancini (also assistant coach under Sven). Both Sven and Mancini coached Sampdoria, Lazio and City. Ancelotti currently coaches Chelsea for Sven's pal Abramovich. Capello snagged the England job. Brian Kid worked for Sven, Brian kid works for Mancini... etc...

*The Swedish/Fulham mob - Bob Houghton was assistant to Bobby Robson at Ipswich. They played together at Fulham. Bobby R later managed Fulham. Houghton went to Sweden and Malmö FF where he took them to the European Cup finals. Through Houghton's advice Hodgson got hired by Halmstad where he introduced what he called the "English school of football". Later by Malmö. Hodgson coached Mancini's Inter. Hodgson coached the United Arab Emirates (hehe). Hodgson was on cue for the England job when they decided to go for Sven instead. Hodgson is back at Fulham, where it all started with Robson and Houghton, a job he executes for Fayed, with his new player Geovanni... etc...

So in reality it's not "Italian" football but a mixture of English(zonal defense and training application)/Swedish(team play. Zonal became mixed zonal or pressure and support)/Dutch football(total football)/Italian(catenaccio) - and it's initially mostly Sven's brand of football adopted by the "Gentlemans Club" and perfected through trade. Pure catenaccio is an entirely different thing.

And since Sven was the first to peice them all together, it should if anything, be called Svenaccio or something because what he did was to fuse all of it together into a perfect system as well as introducing it in both Portugal and Italy with great success. There'd been no Mourinho without a Sven... just as there would have been no Sven without a Lidholm or a Hodgson... or a Hodgson without a Houghton... or a Houghton without a Robson.

And there most certainly wouldn't have been a Mancini. Catenacio - it is not.


This also touches on another subject. Somehow all of this manages to pass over the pundits heads, but there are coaches that truly are worth more than others on so many levels. And Hodgson is one of those guys. He's connected with The Gentlemens Club. Just like Mancini.

Hughes, the arrogant twat, never got this. Cook, I'm sure, is still pretty clueless. The former City board certanly didn't know fuck all. But ADUG is on cue... Hodgson's United Arab Emirates pals... fucking ADUG... thank you Shinawatra...

Managers like Sven are in this sense is more than just managers. They are indeed a fucking Dons. When Sven calls his sheik friends (the real ones) or picks up the phone and gives his opinion on his former player Ancelotti, Kaka deal killer and Ronaldinho hirerer Ancelotti, to his buddy Abramovich - shit will happen.

You simply do not fuck with these guys. They all know each other. And they rule football behind the svenery.


It is impossible to describe how much the appointment of Mancini (or Sven at his time) really means and meant. Hughes was a fucking parenthesis in a job Sven got started. The money he spent, the gloating little prick, came about through Sven's connections. And now it's sorted. On and upwards.

Let's hope the board isn't as lax this time around...

Nicky I love that post.

Very very interesting and lots of food for thought.

Great post, we need more of this kind of stuff on bluemoon.

What was MH doing?

 

[juhanni]

I think it lacks something.

What explains Richard burst into attack?

Its about minimising mistakes because its impossible to take the ball from him when he goes !

 

[the--dud]

I think it lacks something.

What explains Richard burst into attack?

Its about minimising mistakes because its impossible to take the ball from him when he goes !

I think RM tactics allows a certain flair/creativity (as all good tactical systems should!). Richards attack was one of those combinations of creativity whilst still retaining control and safety at the back. Due to De Jong and Barry sitting deep they can drop into the space left by Richards which gives us a (temporary) stability if Richards were to lose the ball. Under a lesser tactician (MH?) Barry (perhaps even De Jong) would have been sucked into the action and joined the attack. Which would have left us open for attacks if the ball was lost.

A good example of a similar tactical system lacking creativity was Mourinho's Chelsea in his last season. Though a brilliant side they were often slagged off for being boring and conservative, it was due to not having enough flair players. Not just Tevez/Robinho types but you also need creative passers like Pirlo and Fabregas.

 

[the_special_one]

Read what I said, I actually said that:

This defensive set up provides the foundation for the attack; it employs the same concept of Catenaccio in an updated form. The aims is draw teams down the defensive areas of the pitch and regain the ball in order to counter attack

This is different from saying the system IS Catenaccio. If you going to say I have done something say what I said don’t make it up. Also in Italy Catenaccio has TWO meanings, the tactical system and the mentality of play.

As for the criticism that the article is very basic, that was my aim. I wanted to provide a basic overview of the system for those who wanted an insight. I am aware of what is and is not basic as I have compiled material for UEFA B, UEFA A and PRO LICENCE. Much of what I have is bound by contract.

Having said all of that I enjoyed your post nick it was a good read, since I had the chance to observe and meet some of the managers you talk about I found it interesting, I have talked about the systems they use and how they train it with a few of them. I would be interested in reading your posts regarding Sven and his system.

I will also be taking Italian and Spanish coaching certificates in the near future. I have travelled through many countries in Europe including Italy visiting many big clubs. I am fully aware of the workings of how managers are viewed there as opposed to here.

If any poster has questions or would like to make further criticism then email me on ironman268@googlemail.com.

 

[lostgalaxy]

I think it lacks something.

What explains Richard burst into attack?

Its about minimising mistakes because its impossible to take the ball from him when he goes !

I see. It's about attacking out of the blue!

 

[Ed68]

I don't care about the tactics used as long as the game looks good and we win.

Am I alone in this?

I must have been tired when I posted this.

Both the OP and NNs responses are really interesting - good work fellas