Damocles said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Damocles said:
By "alternative to the consensus", you mean "information that you ask us to solely trust you on despite contradicting comments from the people involved"?
And by "general hostility" you mean "questioning of the above".
People have never took your word at face value on anything, I have no idea why you think this is a new thing brought about by consensus.
More to the point, I honestly don't trust your information on Mancini and especially Marwood and think your personal opinion or the personal opinion of those feeding you this stuff is skewed at every single step to paint Mancini in the worst possible light. I think in particularly, you or the people you speak to, are fed information for the sole purposes of meeting the agenda of certain people, which you've previously alluded to and we had a PM conversation about after the nonsense that was the completely fabricated Mancini-Juve-Khaldoon argument, just to name one incident.
I think you trust this information as accurate and in good faith which is fine and understandable but taints yours and several others people's opinion on the manager and his abilities.
This is obviously a guess based on the small facts that I do know because I have no other explanation to why you've seemingly took a nosedive on the manager since about last October time. Either this or you've locked yourself into an echo chamber; I do see that "City are better than Mancini" arrogance in your posts now and again and I'm pretty sure we've danced this dance over this before.
I have no dislike and I don't think you're stupid but I often question the rationality of your posts about Mancini, in particularly with his relationships with others and how this affects your overall opinion. To put this a better way, we've disagreed probably hundreds of times in the past over numerous subjects. But never before have you gave an opinion and when questioned later called either persecution or winking/nodding as a way to back up your opinion, and it's a tactic that annoys others as it's a bit of a cop out.
As I say, I can only guess to the causes of it and have given what I think to be a possible cause. It's probably confusing correlation and causation but it's the best I have. There's been a sea change over the last year or so that seems to defy rational explanation. If you could explain why you posts do seem to have the underlying ideal that our highly decorated manager doesn't know what he's doing (either by direct mention or insinuation), then, and I say this in good faith, I'm all ears for it. Billy and Dave's opinion I've always understood; not agreed, but I see where they are coming from at least. With you, I'm at a loss to explain why you have seemingly changed from a person who respected Mancini's accomplishments in the game and thought he was a great manager to seemingly deriding him often, whilst we've simultaneously gone through our most successful period since Big Joe. I suppose the sarcasm and contempt that you get from me comes because I honestly don't understand your opinion.
Since you have gone to such trouble, will do you the courtesy some point tomorrow.
October, you say?
Bloody hell, been banging the drum for Jose since Hughes!
Thanks.
Whilst I agree that all of us wanted Jose post-Hughes, with a few exceptions we all warmed to Mancini after the FA Cup win and continually more early last year during that period where we were twatting teams. The Billy and Daves didn't like Mancini before the FA Cup which is fine as they don't rate him on a personal level. However, my issue here is that you used to be with Mancini to the level of the general consensus and broke away from this despite the success.
As promised, I'll try to answer some of your points, questions. I don't ask anything of any poster on here, aside from a degree of civility. Albeit, that even seems to be a stretch for some.
I'm a little confused by some of your original post, though, mate. I will caveat the word, mate, as obviously you don't know me, although we have exchanged plenty of dialogue down the years, and I have suggested previously there is enough element of 'trust' there, through longevity, if nothing else, to have met up and you can get more of a 'handle' on me.
I don't owe that anybody, certainly under the veil of my so-called 'expertise', but I feel, on occasion, for me, it is a courtesy I do need to extend to the board, as I have done to Ric and a handful of others.
I'm a big boy, and don't need anybody to fight my corner, but a slight smattering of validition 'does' make life a little easier, in trying to be an active member, certainly, when it comes to the regular Blue Moon washing machine cycle, as it replenishes itself with new opinions and posters.
In terms of my slight confusion, it simply stems from some of your language, dropping in and out of what is entirely feasible to ask of any poster on here, but then has a slight undertone of inclusiveness about it, seemingly representing more than just yourself, in terms of how, why and when I should respond on certain topics,and how it annoys others.
I am not asking a question of you here, just how it reads.
You say never before I have attempted to cite either persecution, or attempted to simply 'straight bat' things when a thread becomes heated, that's a 'cop out'. I am entirely comfortable with this be honest, if that's indeed how it's perceived of me.
I have stopped posting in the transfer forum over three previous summers, when the abuse has got to a stage when the only thing that will suffice is to just stop, otherwise, it does me or this forum no favours. It's the reason why I decided to pull the plug altogether, last summer.
As you rightly point out in our own disagreements, it's a dance that can be danced as many times as you have the sanity or inclination for. Nobody is going to take it upon themselves to involve themselves in monitoring every post that is made towards a particular poster, but I am the one sat at the other end of this keyboard, so whether it resonates for me personally, through sarcasm, cynicism or repetition, from seemingly the same handful of posters, that's something only I can reconcile.
When you refer to 'people have never taken my word on face value on anything', having never asked them to do so in the first place, nor would expect them to, I don't have any hang-up over this. Those posters who do feel they can at least take it under consideration, again, whether that is because I am personally known to them, or, and there has been precedent, some things have come to pass, it is not to serve my agenda or anybody else.
I am bloody good at my job, that's not me being conceited, it's taken me twenty-odd years of hard work in the football business, and I know when I am being fed a line, who I can trust, invariably, they are the people who stand the test of time, who have their own track record for information, and invariably love their club to bits. I know these people cut me more slack because they also know I am 'City daft', a pretty likeable fella, and that not all things are black and white, despite what might be in the public domain already.
I am pleased that you state it is only your 'thoughts' in terms of me dressing my own opinion as agenda, sometimes, admittedly, my bullet-point style, perhaps even authoratative style of posting, (some habits die hard), rather than more considered pieces, muddy the waters, can confuse fellow blues, especially if they are not elaborated on further.
As I have already eluded to above, I believe myself to be a sound judge of what is divulged, whether it should be divulged on here or elsewhere, a decision I have to make most days, as although City is a big part of my life, it takes up only a very small part professionally. There are some pretty broad strokes you admit to, again, I appreciate that, in arriving at the conclusions and stance you do have. Agendas are everywhere in football, simply because of the sums involved. Managers, agents, owners, tea-lady. It would be a mistake to generalise about people who have access to information, though, just because it does not sit alongside whatever the current narrative is.
Case in point, the agenda to paint Mancini in the 'worst possible light', referencing a PM conversation you believe to have been fabricated by somebody re Mancini and Juventus, because of facts you were also made privy to. Again, there seems a pressure for some sort of mission statement, simply because you have personalised some aspects of your post. Again, apologies if I have misread the sentiment. I do trust certain sources and re Juve talks, I do believe what I was told, and it's hardly a stretch now when we see what has come to pass with Mancini talking to Monaco last January, despite us being top of the league and me thinking we were running away with it. Juventus were on the sniff, they had been in London a few weeks previous having their arses handed to them by Fulham in the Europa League. Mancini used to get the bus with his old man as a kid and watch his beloved Juve, he knew lifting that FA Cup would prove his salvation, as he did last year with the league.
There are so many instances in the game, transfer enquiries being a case in point, where something which is correct at the time, can be off beam just a few weeks later, or a few months if Mancini's comments today about Van Persie are correct.
I am intrigued about the emphasising of the word 'especially' when it concerns information that comes out about Marwood. I'm not sure where you stand on his merits, and you would be misguided if you hankered a belief that I was another one of his 'snouts'. I simply try and get across what I am lead to believe, that Marwood was and is a highly-valued member of the club, is appreciated to the fullest by Khaldoon and our owner, and if was such a bastard, would not be entrusted with the biggest investment in youth facilities the game will ever see. He was the brake to Mancini, the conduit to Khaldoon and Abu Dhabi, as was Cook, Mancini fell out with both of them because, and this is where I agree with Mancini, last summer was the moment to add the jewels to the Premier League crown.
The rationality of my postings can change from day to day, people are liars if they don't let both the wins and losses impact their moods. But it is his 'relationship with others', which does then begin to form my overall opinion of Bobby as a manager, and by manager, I mean the top echelon, one where both Barcelona and Real Madrid would not need convincing.
Most pointedly of all, were those images of Jurgen Klopp, stood by that touchline in Dortmund. I saw a guy that hasn't just put the blocks in place for this current Dortmund team, in such a short space of time, but for the next five years or so. I was taken aback by his outright enthusiasm in the desire his players showed that night, despite picking a scratch side and already qualified.
I'm not looking for high-fives, although there was plenty of that going on, Pearce et al, they can all do that. It was an overriding sense of belonging, that those players came off that pitch and felt they had pleased their manager in a style and tempo which did his teachings justice.
I do and have never sensed that connection between pitch and dugout at City during Bobby's tenure. If anything he has more of a connection with the fanbase, and again, I think that is because we are so grateful for what has been delivered to our club, and there is still a fear of the unknown, what comes next if the manager was to move on one day. I feel the majority of our squad has so much untapped potential that can only make that last step, and I mean one of the dominant forces in the game, if they can now rally to a cause, because they already earn phenomenal money and have the talent to move to another top club at some point.
This is what gets me down about Mario. Mancini has nailed his colours to the mast in terms of his recruitment, his personal relationship was supposed to be the tipping point (thanks FBloke (c)), in terms of realising his talents, but I genuinely don't see any impact our manager has had on him since his arrival. His recent substitutions of Mario at West Ham and against United also concerned me. Most commentators insisted he was having shit games, which is just plain rubbish. Essentially, he was on both occasions, the biggest threat on the pitch, yet Bobby again picked his moments wrong to throw him under the bus and essentially drag him off and prolong the debate for days to come. How is Mario supposed to get on message when there is no consistent message from the manager towards him. I have been lucky to spend some time around Balotelli, his wider circle, his mind hasn't been right since the summer and there is definitely a bemusement from them when people speak of how close they must be?
I shouted Bobby's name from the rooftops at Wembley, did so again on that glorious day in May, does that make me a hypocrite?, perhaps in some eyes, am I grateful?, of course, but more so to Khaldoon and Sheik Mansour.
You have noticed an irrationality to my posts on all things Bobby since October, although it's probably been since the beginning of September when something did not sit right for me. Yaya sat that little bit deeper, Vinny, all too rash, Barry and Aguero injured, and a general malaise in our play in terms of both tempo, confusing interchanging of formations, and Mancini's public or not so public treatment of players such as Hart, Sinclair and Lescott.
For me, and this is the nub, because I don't think I am telling anybody anything new here, football is all about time and place. A rare perfect storm is brewing where both Mourinho, who I have long championed his merits, despite his results this season at Madrid, and Guardiola, who I have tremendous respect for in terms of his ethos, are seemingly available and want to come to the Premier League. I would be very happy with either because unlike Mancini, I believe both of these men could do great things at our club, take the players to the next level. What makes me think Bobby can't? I love both Chicken and Steak, but if I go out to eat, steak always feel like more of a treat for me. It's just a question of personal taste. I hope some of this has tried to give you a better 'handle', and in this long-winded prose, anything which might smart, was not intended.
Best wishes for New Year.
