Mancini

[OB1]

I think it's the lengthening list they are having a go at

The list is lengthened based on managers linked with us. People seem offended because these managers don't have the trophies that Mancini does, but quite frankly Benitez has a similar amount of trophies to Mancini and I don't think there'd be many saying he's of the right pedigree either.

Billy,

What's fascinating is the way that discussing a potential replacement can become frequently then be portrayed as endorsement when that is not necessarily the case. Equally, discussing a manager and admiring their attributes does not mean that a poster views them as better than Mancini. Whether Mancini stays or goes will not be down to the supporters but if you acknowldege that he might go at the end of the season (and, like it or not, there are obvious creasons for why there is a particular risk of that this summer), you should be prepared for the possibility that the replacement will not be your ideal choice.


Quite why some posters, seem to me to, want to deliberately distort and then try to diminish the comments of others is quite behind me. I see that as something quite different from having a go at a genuinely held view that one does not agree with; albeit hopefully done in as reasonable a way as possible, which is easy to say and sometimes more difficult to do. The point I'm making here though is that some people's comments appear mendacious. Put another way, I understand why people - methaphoriclly speaking - want to fight but I don't like people fighting dirty.

But, hey, as you have pointed out several times, this is just an internet forum.

 

[andyhinch]

Dickov's free put Liverpool out of the cup, young. Worth a punt?

 

[fbloke]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

Perhaps the problem is that, as I alluded to in that post, the very managers that the majority crave (not just the outers) are the same managers that wont be coming.

So accepting the logic that the preferred choice for next manager wont be coming the insistance that Mancini is going to be fired for this reason or that is completely debased isnt it?

The same would not doubt go for the conversations that may, or may not, have gone on within MCFC.

The new D o F and Chief Exec' recommend to the board that we need a new manager and that the evidence is offered for why. The board grudgingly accept the premise and ask for a list of alternatives.

The list is much the same list as we all would offer up -

Pep
Jose
Klopp
FdeB
MP

Etc.

So, you want us to move Mancini out and yet now we can only get your fourth choice replacement at best. Lets not do that then boys.

Now lets say that the reason for the need to move Mancini is because some players dont like him. Ha! We are now officially on Chelsea territory and I seriously suspect that even the D o F would back the manager because otherwise his own position moving forward is entirely based on players being nice.

I hear rumours that the BIG issue is that the club captain undermined the manager of his clubs instructions not to play for his country after a long lay off.

It may just be paper talk of course and all is now OK so therefore we move on, but Tolm' hints at it being a bigger problem than that and my response is - if it comes to a straight choice between a manager who is difficult to replace and a player who behaves in such a manner then I sell the player because he is simply the easiest to replace.

Kompany out and Hummels in seems like a much more manageable response than Mancini out and perhaps a fourth or fifth choice replacement coming in.

 

[samharris]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

Perhaps the problem is that, as I alluded to in that post, the very managers that the majority crave (not just the outers) are the same managers that wont be coming.

So accepting the logic that the preferred choice for next manager wont be coming the insistance that Mancini is going to be fired for this reason or that is completely debased isnt it?

The same would not doubt go for the conversations that may, or may not, have gone on within MCFC.

The new D o F and Chief Exec' recommend to the board that we need a new manager and that the evidence is offered for why. The board grudgingly accept the premise and ask for a list of alternatives.

The list is much the same list as we all would offer up -

Pep
Jose
Klopp
FdeB
MP

Etc.

So, you want us to move Mancini out and yet now we can only get your fourth choice replacement at best. Lets not do that then boys.

Now lets say that the reason for the need to move Mancini is because some players dont like him. Ha! We are now officially on Chelsea territory and I seriously suspect that even the D o F would back the manager because otherwise his own position moving forward is entirely based on players being nice.

I hear rumours that the BIG issue is that the club captain undermined the manager of his clubs instructions not to play for his country after a long lay off.

It may just be paper talk of course and all is now OK so therefore we move on, but Tolm' hints at it being a bigger problem than that and my response is - if it comes to a straight choice between a manager who is difficult to replace and a player who behaves in such a manner then I sell the player because he is simply the easiest to replace.

Kompany out and Hummels in seems like a much more manageable response than Mancini out and perhaps a fourth or fifth choice replacement coming in.

What available managers would be classed as trading up,should Mancini get outed ??

Anyone ??

 

[fbloke]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

Perhaps the problem is that, as I alluded to in that post, the very managers that the majority crave (not just the outers) are the same managers that wont be coming.

So accepting the logic that the preferred choice for next manager wont be coming the insistance that Mancini is going to be fired for this reason or that is completely debased isnt it?

The same would not doubt go for the conversations that may, or may not, have gone on within MCFC.

The new D o F and Chief Exec' recommend to the board that we need a new manager and that the evidence is offered for why. The board grudgingly accept the premise and ask for a list of alternatives.

The list is much the same list as we all would offer up -

Pep
Jose
Klopp
FdeB
MP

Etc.

So, you want us to move Mancini out and yet now we can only get your fourth choice replacement at best. Lets not do that then boys.

Now lets say that the reason for the need to move Mancini is because some players dont like him. Ha! We are now officially on Chelsea territory and I seriously suspect that even the D o F would back the manager because otherwise his own position moving forward is entirely based on players being nice.

I hear rumours that the BIG issue is that the club captain undermined the manager of his clubs instructions not to play for his country after a long lay off.

It may just be paper talk of course and all is now OK so therefore we move on, but Tolm' hints at it being a bigger problem than that and my response is - if it comes to a straight choice between a manager who is difficult to replace and a player who behaves in such a manner then I sell the player because he is simply the easiest to replace.

Kompany out and Hummels in seems like a much more manageable response than Mancini out and perhaps a fourth or fifth choice replacement coming in.

What available managers would be classed as trading up,should Mancini get outed ??

Anyone ??

If you were to make a list of the top 5 managers currently plying their trade I think Mancini makes it.

I dont think some that are being touted as his replacement do and he 4 other names wont be coming.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

Come on outers lets have some names?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

Perhaps the problem is that, as I alluded to in that post, the very managers that the majority crave (not just the outers) are the same managers that wont be coming.

So accepting the logic that the preferred choice for next manager wont be coming the insistance that Mancini is going to be fired for this reason or that is completely debased isnt it?

The same would not doubt go for the conversations that may, or may not, have gone on within MCFC.

The new D o F and Chief Exec' recommend to the board that we need a new manager and that the evidence is offered for why. The board grudgingly accept the premise and ask for a list of alternatives.

The list is much the same list as we all would offer up -

Pep
Jose
Klopp
FdeB
MP

Etc.

So, you want us to move Mancini out and yet now we can only get your fourth choice replacement at best. Lets not do that then boys.

Now lets say that the reason for the need to move Mancini is because some players dont like him. Ha! We are now officially on Chelsea territory and I seriously su
spect that even the D o F would back the manager because otherwise his own position moving forward is entirely based on players being nice.

I hear rumours that the BIG issue is that the club captain undermined the manager of his clubs instructions not to play for his country after a long lay off.

It may just be paper talk of course and all is now OK so therefore we move on, but Tolm' hints at it being a bigger problem than that and my response is - if it comes to a straight choice between a manager who is difficult to replace and a player who behaves in such a manner then I sell the player because he is simply the easiest to replace.

Kompany out and Hummels in seems like a much more manageable response than Mancini out and perhaps a fourth or fifth choice replacement coming in.

what the fuck?

You can't tell an international manager how long to play a player he's called up who's been declared fit by one of the elite international doctor's and evidently our own medical team for a competitive international match, FIFA would have fur balls.

It's ludicrous and happily I expect the Sheikh and Khaldoon to not be idiots and to tell Mancini to grow a pair should he try and make a further issue out of it.

If we sell Vinnie then we are at Swailes and Lee proportions of ownership stupidity and there really isn't much point justifying a season ticket price increase to fund ludicrous decision making by people who have enough money to compensate me for any stupid decision making.

I'll cut it plain and simple and say I quit if Vinnie leaves, simple as.

 

[andyhinch]

Come on outers lets have some names?

Their still trying to come up with an argument for my Dickov suggestion:)

 

[Skashion]

(FYI, you make yourself sound quite retarded when you somehow connect "progress" or "success" in a league with an explicit expectation of winning that competition. Try not to do that any more, its horrible.)

Throw the retards down the well, so my country can be free.
Throw the retards down the well, then we have a big party.

 

[samharris]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

Perhaps the problem is that, as I alluded to in that post, the very managers that the majority crave (not just the outers) are the same managers that wont be coming.

So accepting the logic that the preferred choice for next manager wont be coming the insistance that Mancini is going to be fired for this reason or that is completely debased isnt it?

The same would not doubt go for the conversations that may, or may not, have gone on within MCFC.

The new D o F and Chief Exec' recommend to the board that we need a new manager and that the evidence is offered for why. The board grudgingly accept the premise and ask for a list of alternatives.

The list is much the same list as we all would offer up -

Pep
Jose
Klopp
FdeB
MP

Etc.

So, you want us to move Mancini out and yet now we can only get your fourth choice replacement at best. Lets not do that then boys.

Now lets say that the reason for the need to move Mancini is because some players dont like him. Ha! We are now officially on Chelsea territory and I seriously suspect that even the D o F would back the manager because otherwise his own position moving forward is entirely based on players being nice.

I hear rumours that the BIG issue is that the club captain undermined the manager of his clubs instructions not to play for his country after a long lay off.

It may just be paper talk of course and all is now OK so therefore we move on, but Tolm' hints at it being a bigger problem than that and my response is - if it comes to a straight choice between a manager who is difficult to replace and a player who behaves in such a manner then I sell the player because he is simply the easiest to replace.

Kompany out and Hummels in seems like a much more manageable response than Mancini out and perhaps a fourth or fifth choice replacement coming in.

What available managers would be classed as trading up,should Mancini get outed ??

Anyone ??

If you were to make a list of the top 5 managers currently plying their trade I think Mancini makes it.

I dont think some that are being touted as his replacement do and he 4 other names wont be coming.

Maybe some want a change for changes sake then... Not good.

 

[moomba]

I'll cut it plain and simple and say I quit if Vinnie leaves, simple as.

If it comes down to a decision between a player (any player) and a manager (any manager) you must side with the manager. Recipe for disaster to do anything else, once you put that sort of power in the hands of players they will take advantage time and time again.

Fortunately I doubt VK would involve himself in those sort of "him or me" games.

Would you quit if VK decided he wanted to play elsewhere regardless of any issues with Mancini? Can't think of any player that deserves to hold that sort of position at a club.

 

[Skashion]

Dickov's free put Liverpool out of the cup, young. Worth a punt?

Indeed, that argument has been mooted. Apparently we're all supposed to go nuts for de Boer because he got the better of Mancini in the Champions League. Benitez got the better of Mourinho in the Champions League with a squad costing a lot less. I still haven't seen anyone suggest Benitez.

 

[Utter bobbins]

Dickov's free put Liverpool out of the cup, young. Worth a punt?

Indeed, that argument has been mooted. Apparently we're all supposed to go nuts for de Boer because he got the better of Mancini in the Champions League. Benitez got the better of Mourinho in the Champions League with a squad costing a lot less. I still haven't seen anyone suggest Benitez.

There's time yet

 

[adrianr]

Dickov's free put Liverpool out of the cup, young. Worth a punt?

Indeed, that argument has been mooted. Apparently we're all supposed to go nuts for de Boer because he got the better of Mancini in the Champions League. Benitez got the better of Mourinho in the Champions League with a squad costing a lot less. I still haven't seen anyone suggest Benitez.

The way this thread is going I'd give it till the end of the week. Suggesting Mourinho is one thing, but we'll be getting onto Steve Bruce in a month if we're not careful.

 

[OB1]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

I didn't answer cos I was out last night but I will now.

My ideal choice has gone to Munich so, currently, I'd plump for:

Mourinho
Klopp
Wenger (with Paddy as his one of his key assistants).

I've not quoted the rest of your post, where you make some perfectly sensible points. However, I think that the list of managers who could do a better job than Mancini extends beyond those three e.g. I'd have Ancelotti in 4th or maybe 5th place on my list. I think there are other older candidates that would do a fine job but I personally would prefer someone who, not ironcially, is a similar vintage to Mancini.

One of the problems in assessing Mancini's true worth as a manager is that his last two clubs have had very expensive squads and that is a huge advantage. The counter to that is of course that he had a degree of success at his first two clubs but that does not mean that numerous managers would not equal his success at City if they got the chance and it does not mean that, as one estimable poster put it, Mancini has hit a wall at City.

I have said before that I decided to go binary on this debate and chose "out" so, whilst, for the umpteenth time, I like Mancini, appreciate all his good work, and hope that he proves my concerns about him unfounded, I am not going to argue a case to keep him; especially not when I think the case for a change outweighs the case for keeping him.

The other point that I keep returning to is that, regardless of what I think about whether he should stay or go, I think him more likely to go than stay.

To your point about a recalcitrant player, yes of course it would be easier to replace one player than one manager but when there are questions to be asked about Mancini's EI and its impact on numerous players, the discussion about who to replace becomes tricky, IMO. But this should not be about empowering players in relation to their superior(s) but assessing the competencies of the manager.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I'll cut it plain and simple and say I quit if Vinnie leaves, simple as.

If it comes down to a decision between a player (any player) and a manager (any manager) you must side with the manager. Recipe for disaster to do anything else, once you put that sort of power in the hands of players they will take advantage time and time again.

Fortunately I doubt VK would involve himself in those sort of "him or me" games.

Would you quit if VK decided he wanted to play elsewhere regardless of any issues with Mancini? Can't think of any player that deserves to hold that sort of position at a club.

when Mancini is completely in the wrong then he either has to back down or quit, Vinnie has done nothing wrong and if Mancini wants to pick an issue over it and create that decision then it has to be with the person in the right.


ANNEXE 1
RELEASE OF PLAYERS TO ASSOCIATION TEAMS
Article 1 Principles
1. Clubs are obliged to release their registered players to the
representative teams of the country for which the player is eligible
to play on the basis of his nationality if they are called up by the
association concerned. Any agreement between a player and a
club to the contrary is prohibited.
2. The release of players under the terms of paragraph 1 of this
article is mandatory for matches on dates listed in the coordinated
international match calendar and for all matches for which a duty
to release players exists on the basis of a special decision by the FIFA
Executive Committee.
3. It is not compulsory to release players for matches scheduled on
dates not listed in the coordinated international match calendar.
4. Players must also be released for the period of preparation before
the match, which is laid down as follows:
a) friendly matches: 48 hours;
b) qualifying matches for an international tournament: four days
(including the day of the match). The release period shall be
extended to five days if the match concerned is held in a different
confederation to the one in which the player’s club is registered;
c) qualifying matches for an international tournament that are staged
on a date reserved for friendly matches: 48 hours;
d) friendly matches that are staged on a date reserved for qualifying
matches for an international tournament: 48 hours;
e) the final competition of an international tournament: 14 days
before the first match in the competition.
Players shall join the association team no later than 48 hours before
kick-off.

Article 4 Injured players
A player who due to injury or illness is unable to comply with a
call-up from the association that he is eligible to represent on the basis
of his nationality shall, if the association so requires, agree to undergo
a medical examination by a doctor of that association’s choice. If the
player so wishes, such medical examination shall take place on the
territory of the association at which he is registered.

Mancini has no leg to stand on, he was just trying to be clever and it failed.

 

[adrianr]

I note with interest that there were no replies to my post asking for truly honest lists of replacement managers, its funny that dont you think?

Perhaps the problem is that, as I alluded to in that post, the very managers that the majority crave (not just the outers) are the same managers that wont be coming.

So accepting the logic that the preferred choice for next manager wont be coming the insistance that Mancini is going to be fired for this reason or that is completely debased isnt it?

The same would not doubt go for the conversations that may, or may not, have gone on within MCFC.

The new D o F and Chief Exec' recommend to the board that we need a new manager and that the evidence is offered for why. The board grudgingly accept the premise and ask for a list of alternatives.

The list is much the same list as we all would offer up -

Pep
Jose
Klopp
FdeB
MP

Etc.

So, you want us to move Mancini out and yet now we can only get your fourth choice replacement at best. Lets not do that then boys.

Now lets say that the reason for the need to move Mancini is because some players dont like him. Ha! We are now officially on Chelsea territory and I seriously suspect that even the D o F would back the manager because otherwise his own position moving forward is entirely based on players being nice.

I hear rumours that the BIG issue is that the club captain undermined the manager of his clubs instructions not to play for his country after a long lay off.

It may just be paper talk of course and all is now OK so therefore we move on, but Tolm' hints at it being a bigger problem than that and my response is - if it comes to a straight choice between a manager who is difficult to replace and a player who behaves in such a manner then I sell the player because he is simply the easiest to replace.

Kompany out and Hummels in seems like a much more manageable response than Mancini out and perhaps a fourth or fifth choice replacement coming in.

Is that not the second time you've posted essentially the same thing in this thread? Or a very similar thing in one of the other managerial merry go round threads, probably the Mourinho one. I'm sure it was discussed at the time.

 

[bondsman]

I think it's the lengthening list they are having a go at

The list is lengthened based on managers linked with us. People seem offended because these managers don't have the trophies that Mancini does, but quite frankly Benitez has a similar amount of trophies to Mancini and I don't think there'd be many saying he's of the right pedigree either.

Billy,

What's fascinating is the way that discussing a potential replacement can become frequently then be portrayed as endorsement when that is not necessarily the case. Equally, discussing a manager and admiring their attributes does not mean that a poster views them as better than Mancini. Whether Mancini stays or goes will not be down to the supporters but if you acknowldege that he might go at the end of the season (and, like it or not, there are obvious creasons for why there is a particular risk of that this summer), you should be prepared for the possibility that the replacement will not be your ideal choice.


Quite why some posters, seem to me to, want to deliberately distort and then try to diminish the comments of others is quite behind me. I see that as something quite different from having a go at a genuinely held view that one does not agree with; albeit hopefully done in as reasonable a way as possible, which is easy to say and sometimes more difficult to do. The point I'm making here though is that some people's comments appear mendacious. Put another way, I understand why people - methaphoriclly speaking - want to fight but I don't like people fighting dirty.

But, hey, as you have pointed out several times, this is just an internet forum.

Haha you and mr shears are both keyboard warriors ob1 reading your posts always makes me wonder what you guys look like. I always picture sheldon types who have never kicked a ball in their life which explains your footballing views. Strange how you boys want rid of Mancini but Monaco who want to become a force in world football are linked with him, and even united fans are laughing at the idea we might sack him because we are now so successful we cannot tolerate his gross under achievements. You make me laugh ill give you boys that.

 

[Marvin]

Wenger! I'm sure he's a very all rounded and clever chap.

But there are so many holes in his managerial record over the last decade.

Failure to replace goalkeeper for years, and central defenders. Inability to organise his team defensively. Poor transfer buys etc etc

 

[Danielmanc]

Wenger! I'm sure he's a very all rounded and clever chap.

But there are so many holes in his managerial record over the last decade.

Failure to replace goalkeeper for years, and central defenders. Inability to organise his team defensively. Poor transfer buys etc etc

Amazing that some want the guy who has won nothing for 8 years to be our next manager