Mancini

[Danamy]

Your not really getting the idea with that comment.

I read it as creating a certain atmosphere to keep all players at their best? Have i got him wrong?

Yes and no. Over time you attract players who thrive under the approach and weed out those that don't. Dzeko doesn't thrive nor does Nasri. They are not strong enough. Tevez didn't like it but he gave up fighting it and to be honest it has taken the edge of his game. Nasty, Hart, Zabs, Kompany, Silva, Augero and others no probs. Silva, Augero, Yaya also get some slack because Mancini really rates them. He is always fondling David and Sergio. Mancini also rates Rodwell hence his patience. Jack even gets a cuddle when subbed. Well a pat on the face which for Mancini is nigh on full blown sex.

So Mancini does keep it 'flexible' but only to the extent that if he really, really rates you he won't call you a c**t in the press.

As I said I think asking for Mancini to be flexible with his approach or stop upsetting players or whatever is a waste of time. But then I say that because I like Mancini for what he is and don't spend my time wishing he was someone else.

Bob i like the cut of your jib and you have some very good points, i like the fact that you put some meat on the bone when debating and putting your point across rather than trying to point score and belittle.

One question i do have for you though, you say this is his style and he's not flexible with his approach and you wouldn't want him to be (which is fair enough).

Why is his record in Europe so poor and why hasn't he learnt his lesson and put it right? (Ok that's two questions)

In my opinion, it's his own stubbornness that will cost him his job, nothing else

 

[BobKowalski]

I read it as creating a certain atmosphere to keep all players at their best? Have i got him wrong?

Yes and no. Over time you attract players who thrive under the approach and weed out those that don't. Dzeko doesn't thrive nor does Nasri. They are not strong enough. Tevez didn't like it but he gave up fighting it and to be honest it has taken the edge of his game. Nasty, Hart, Zabs, Kompany, Silva, Augero and others no probs. Silva, Augero, Yaya also get some slack because Mancini really rates them. He is always fondling David and Sergio. Mancini also rates Rodwell hence his patience. Jack even gets a cuddle when subbed. Well a pat on the face which for Mancini is nigh on full blown sex.

So Mancini does keep it 'flexible' but only to the extent that if he really, really rates you he won't call you a c**t in the press.

As I said I think asking for Mancini to be flexible with his approach or stop upsetting players or whatever is a waste of time. But then I say that because I like Mancini for what he is and don't spend my time wishing he was someone else.

Bob i like the cut of your jib and you have some very good points, i like the fact that you put some meat on the bone when debating and putting your point across rather than trying to point score and belittle.

One question i do have for you though, you say this is his style and he's not flexible with his approach and you wouldn't want him to be (which is fair enough).

Why is his record in Europe so poor and why hasn't he learnt his lesson and put it right? (Ok that's two questions)

In my opinion, it's his own stubbornness that will cost him his job, nothing else

Good question. And no idea on Europe. Although with Inter he did get out of the group each time ( I think without checking) so he does know how to at least qualify from the Group stages. Outside of the he did reach a Europa League SF but for a top coach significant European success is noticeably absent.

Perhaps the players don't believe in themselves enough as a group on the European stage and Mancini cannot convince them that they are and Europe is one area where a change in manager is required if only to break the cycle - but I'm just guessing as I don't know the answer.

I do think that if Avram Grant can get to a bloody CL final then how hard can it be. And then you look at Wenger who with 15 odd goes at it only has 1 losing final to his name so who knows. When you have Di Matteo more successful in the CL than Wenger all bets are off.

 

[OB1]

As for myself, I couldn't give a toss about the kind of personality Mancini has. He is no doubt a bit of a bar steward, but any successful manager is, including Fergie and the much-demanded Mourinho. The last named one, the self-acclaimed 'Special one', once publically criticised one of his star defender's, Ricardo Carvalho after that player had let it be known to the Press pack that he couldn't understand why he was being omitted from the Chelsea team, and Mourinho retorted, again to the media, that if Carvalho couldn't understand this, he should take an IQ test. Mourinho then dropped him from the squad for a few games and also fined the player a reported £85k for his outburst. This incident bears little difference from how Mancini treats his underperforming players, but some people on here seem to think that Mancini is the only one of his kind and that the rest are cuddly bunnies.

The difference here is that the player effectively criticised the manager via the media and Mourinho clearly decided that he would demonstrate the error of Carvalho's ways by exerting his authority in a very public way. Whether you think Mourinho was right to do so, you can't deny that he was provoked.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

As for myself, I couldn't give a toss about the kind of personality Mancini has. He is no doubt a bit of a bar steward, but any successful manager is, including Fergie and the much-demanded Mourinho. The last named one, the self-acclaimed 'Special one', once publically criticised one of his star defender's, Ricardo Carvalho after that player had let it be known to the Press pack that he couldn't understand why he was being omitted from the Chelsea team, and Mourinho retorted, again to the media, that if Carvalho couldn't understand this, he should take an IQ test. Mourinho then dropped him from the squad for a few games and also fined the player a reported £85k for his outburst. This incident bears little difference from how Mancini treats his underperforming players, but some people on here seem to think that Mancini is the only one of his kind and that the rest are cuddly bunnies.

The difference here is that the player effectively criticised the manager via the media and Mourinho clearly decided that he would demonstrate the error of Carvalho's ways by exerting his authority in a very public way. Whether you think Mourinho was right to do so, you can't deny that he was provoked.

And didn't Lescott and Richards speak publically too?

 

[Balti]

How many are still hanging to the faint hope that Mancini is out at the end of the season?

I was still clinging to the faint hope that we were going to bring Mourinho in in the summer, but the news that he's off to Chelsea has scuppered that. This leaves me in the strange situation of actively hoping to be proved wrong as Mancini proves himself to be the top quality manager that many on here believe him to be, by showing Mourinho and Ferguson a clean pair of heels next season. Sadly I think this will prove to be a forlorn hope.

I'd be very surprised if any genuine supporter did not want Mancini to be our Ferguson,however,no matter how good his coaching/tactics etc. ever are,he will never be able to change his personality,and,this appears to me,to be a fundamental reason he will never be in that class.

bobby will thankfully never be as obnoxious as that old piss pot in the suburbs

 

[Bill]

Hitler? Is this what the argument has come to, comparing our managers personality traits to one of the most despised and evil men of our lifetime? It's all a bit desperate now.
In answer to your question, no it's not great at all to see your manager and captain blank each other, and I hope they can both sort out their differences...but Hitler, fuckinell.

Dear me, I did not compare Mancini's personality to that of Hitler, I referred to an aspect of managerial style; there's a world of difference. How Hitler managed and his goals are also two very different things and Hitler's management style, in of itself, is a much covered subject.

I think you should put the shovel down and walk away from the hole you are digging. There is still time.

a little harsh. we all know what the lad meant.

 

[andyhinch]

Dear me, I did not compare Mancini's personality to that of Hitler, I referred to an aspect of managerial style; there's a world of difference. How Hitler managed and his goals are also two very different things and Hitler's management style, in of itself, is a much covered subject.

I think you should put the shovel down and walk away from the hole you are digging. There is still time.

a little harsh. we all know what the lad meant.

Bloody voice of reason! hound the fucker ;)

 

[Danamy]

Yes and no. Over time you attract players who thrive under the approach and weed out those that don't. Dzeko doesn't thrive nor does Nasri. They are not strong enough. Tevez didn't like it but he gave up fighting it and to be honest it has taken the edge of his game. Nasty, Hart, Zabs, Kompany, Silva, Augero and others no probs. Silva, Augero, Yaya also get some slack because Mancini really rates them. He is always fondling David and Sergio. Mancini also rates Rodwell hence his patience. Jack even gets a cuddle when subbed. Well a pat on the face which for Mancini is nigh on full blown sex.

So Mancini does keep it 'flexible' but only to the extent that if he really, really rates you he won't call you a c**t in the press.

As I said I think asking for Mancini to be flexible with his approach or stop upsetting players or whatever is a waste of time. But then I say that because I like Mancini for what he is and don't spend my time wishing he was someone else.

Bob i like the cut of your jib and you have some very good points, i like the fact that you put some meat on the bone when debating and putting your point across rather than trying to point score and belittle.

One question i do have for you though, you say this is his style and he's not flexible with his approach and you wouldn't want him to be (which is fair enough).

Why is his record in Europe so poor and why hasn't he learnt his lesson and put it right? (Ok that's two questions)

In my opinion, it's his own stubbornness that will cost him his job, nothing else

Good question. And no idea on Europe. Although with Inter he did get out of the group each time ( I think without checking) so he does know how to at least qualify from the Group stages. Outside of the he did reach a Europa League SF but for a top coach significant European success is noticeably absent.

Perhaps the players don't believe in themselves enough as a group on the European stage and Mancini cannot convince them that they are and Europe is one area where a change in manager is required if only to break the cycle - but I'm just guessing as I don't know the answer.

I do think that if Avram Grant can get to a bloody CL final then how hard can it be. And then you look at Wenger who with 15 odd goes at it only has 1 losing final to his name so who knows. When you have Di Matteo more successful in the CL than Wenger all bets are off.

To answer my own question (if i may)

To be successful in Europe you need to be tactically astute and have everyone pulling in the same direction, which is why Mancini's style would never be a success (hope i'm proved wrong if he stays) and please quote me on this if it ever happens, but i'm confident it wont.

You need to be able to change a formation mid-game which is more effective if things aren't going to plan, play what's in front of you, horses for courses etc etc, but i think he's too stubborn and set in his ways to do it, the game against Ajax away was the last straw for me as i watched it from a great height unfold before my very eyes, even the players were looking at each other wondering what the fuck is going on.

All the above is only my humble opinion of course

 

[Blue2112]

Bob i like the cut of your jib and you have some very good points, i like the fact that you put some meat on the bone when debating and putting your point across rather than trying to point score and belittle.

One question i do have for you though, you say this is his style and he's not flexible with his approach and you wouldn't want him to be (which is fair enough).

Why is his record in Europe so poor and why hasn't he learnt his lesson and put it right? (Ok that's two questions)

In my opinion, it's his own stubbornness that will cost him his job, nothing else

Good question. And no idea on Europe. Although with Inter he did get out of the group each time ( I think without checking) so he does know how to at least qualify from the Group stages. Outside of the he did reach a Europa League SF but for a top coach significant European success is noticeably absent.

Perhaps the players don't believe in themselves enough as a group on the European stage and Mancini cannot convince them that they are and Europe is one area where a change in manager is required if only to break the cycle - but I'm just guessing as I don't know the answer.

I do think that if Avram Grant can get to a bloody CL final then how hard can it be. And then you look at Wenger who with 15 odd goes at it only has 1 losing final to his name so who knows. When you have Di Matteo more successful in the CL than Wenger all bets are off.

To answer my own question (if i may)

To be successful in Europe you need to be tactically astute and have everyone pulling in the same direction, which is why Mancini's style would never be a success (hope i'm proved wrong if he stays) and please quote me on this if it ever happens, but i'm confident it wont.

You need to be able to change a formation mid-game which is more effective if things aren't going to plan, play what's in front of you, horses for courses etc etc, but i think he's too stubborn and set in his ways to do it, the game against Ajax away was the last straw for me as i watched it from a great height unfold before my very eyes, even the players were looking at each other wondering what the fuck is going on.

All the above is only my humble opinion of course

M11 3FF don't take this as me having a go because I'm not but if you think or for that matter anybody else thinks they know why Mancini has failed in Europe then wouldn't it be fair to say that an experienced manager like himself should know or at the very least those around him like Platt, Kidd etc would know (especially Kidd having been at United) and would have a quiet word with Roberto.

When one considers Di Matteo has won a Champions League and if it was that easy then I would seriously ask why has he therefore not been picked up by one of Europe's elite club's. In my opinion it's simply nothing more than a cup competition where a silly mistake can have you knocked out. I think the first season nobody expected too much and this season we had a tough group. Yes we should have done better at least against Ajax but as in all cup comps one silly mistake and your out. I'm not sure there is a secret formula when you consider Grant and Di Matteo I prefer to see it as a combination of right manager, right players, right group, right draw and a hell of a degree of luck. The so called greatest manager this country has ever seen has only won it twice and the first time was with two goals in the dieing minutes when Bayern had decided to sit back in the belief it was all won. That was fucking luck whether or not you make your own.I can't even remember there second one because I've blotted it from my memory.

 

[Danamy]

Good question. And no idea on Europe. Although with Inter he did get out of the group each time ( I think without checking) so he does know how to at least qualify from the Group stages. Outside of the he did reach a Europa League SF but for a top coach significant European success is noticeably absent.

Perhaps the players don't believe in themselves enough as a group on the European stage and Mancini cannot convince them that they are and Europe is one area where a change in manager is required if only to break the cycle - but I'm just guessing as I don't know the answer.

I do think that if Avram Grant can get to a bloody CL final then how hard can it be. And then you look at Wenger who with 15 odd goes at it only has 1 losing final to his name so who knows. When you have Di Matteo more successful in the CL than Wenger all bets are off.

To answer my own question (if i may)

To be successful in Europe you need to be tactically astute and have everyone pulling in the same direction, which is why Mancini's style would never be a success (hope i'm proved wrong if he stays) and please quote me on this if it ever happens, but i'm confident it wont.

You need to be able to change a formation mid-game which is more effective if things aren't going to plan, play what's in front of you, horses for courses etc etc, but i think he's too stubborn and set in his ways to do it, the game against Ajax away was the last straw for me as i watched it from a great height unfold before my very eyes, even the players were looking at each other wondering what the fuck is going on.

All the above is only my humble opinion of course

M11 3FF don't take this as me having a go because I'm not but if you think or for that matter anybody else thinks they know why Mancini has failed in Europe then wouldn't it be fair to say that an experienced manager like himself should know or at the very least those around him like Platt, Kidd etc would know (especially Kidd having been at United) and would have a quiet word with Roberto.

When one considers Di Matteo has won a Champions League and if it was that easy then I would seriously ask why has he therefore not been picked up by one of Europe's elite club's. In my opinion it's simply nothing more than a cup competition where a silly mistake can have you knocked out. I think the first season nobody expected too much and this season we had a tough group. Yes we should have done better at least against Ajax but as in all cup comps one silly mistake and your out. I'm not sure there is a secret formula when you consider Grant and Di Matteo I prefer to see it as a combination of right manager, right players, right group, right draw and a hell of a degree of luck. The so called greatest manager this country has ever seen has only won it twice and the first time was with two goals in the dieing minutes when Bayern had decided to sit back in the belief it was all won. That was fucking luck whether or not you make your own.I can't even remember there second one because I've blotted it from my memory.

Your more than welcome to have a go, i'm not expecting to have it all my own way, far from it

Just for the record though Blue2112, who said anything about winning it, i'm talking about just getting out of the group stage, that'll be a start? ;-)