Mancini

[blueinsa]

We have had some shit draws and no one can say otherwise and like any other cup comp, the luck of the draw is often needed.

Trouble is, unless we start to qualify from the groups and fast, the draws under the current system are never going to get easier and the money invested means failure is just not an option.

Its far more than just progression in a competition, its progression off it from a business point of view, particularly with FFPR in mind.

Im not saying we have to win the thing but getting past the group stages is a must!

 

[Rammy Blue]

Good question. And no idea on Europe. Although with Inter he did get out of the group each time ( I think without checking) so he does know how to at least qualify from the Group stages. Outside of the he did reach a Europa League SF but for a top coach significant European success is noticeably absent.

Perhaps the players don't believe in themselves enough as a group on the European stage and Mancini cannot convince them that they are and Europe is one area where a change in manager is required if only to break the cycle - but I'm just guessing as I don't know the answer.

I do think that if Avram Grant can get to a bloody CL final then how hard can it be. And then you look at Wenger who with 15 odd goes at it only has 1 losing final to his name so who knows. When you have Di Matteo more successful in the CL than Wenger all bets are off.

To answer my own question (if i may)

To be successful in Europe you need to be tactically astute and have everyone pulling in the same direction, which is why Mancini's style would never be a success (hope i'm proved wrong if he stays) and please quote me on this if it ever happens, but i'm confident it wont.

You need to be able to change a formation mid-game which is more effective if things aren't going to plan, play what's in front of you, horses for courses etc etc, but i think he's too stubborn and set in his ways to do it, the game against Ajax away was the last straw for me as i watched it from a great height unfold before my very eyes, even the players were looking at each other wondering what the fuck is going on.

All the above is only my humble opinion of course

M11 3FF don't take this as me having a go because I'm not but if you think or for that matter anybody else thinks they know why Mancini has failed in Europe then wouldn't it be fair to say that an experienced manager like himself should know or at the very least those around him like Platt, Kidd etc would know (especially Kidd having been at United) and would have a quiet word with Roberto.

When one considers Di Matteo has won a Champions League and if it was that easy then I would seriously ask why has he therefore not been picked up by one of Europe's elite club's. In my opinion it's simply nothing more than a cup competition where a silly mistake can have you knocked out. I think the first season nobody expected too much and this season we had a tough group. Yes we should have done better at least against Ajax but as in all cup comps one silly mistake and your out. I'm not sure there is a secret formula when you consider Grant and Di Matteo I prefer to see it as a combination of right manager, right players, right group, right draw and a hell of a degree of luck. The so called greatest manager this country has ever seen has only won it twice and the first time was with two goals in the dieing minutes when Bayern had decided to sit back in the belief it was all won. That was fucking luck whether or not you make your own.I can't even remember there second one because I've blotted it from my memory.

I think M11 answers that tbh in that Bob is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

 

[OB1]

a little harsh. we all know what the lad meant.

My shoulders are broad but thank you.

 

[The Future's Blue]

We have had some shit draws and no one can say otherwise and like any other cup comp, the luck of the draw is often needed.

Trouble is, unless we start to qualify from the groups and fast, the draws under the current system are never going to get easier and the money invested means failure is just not an option.

Its far more than just progression in a competition, its progression off it from a business point of view, particularly with FFPR in mind.

Im not saying we have to win the thing but getting past the group stages is a must!

We do know that Mancini has got out of the groups with Inter but not quite yet with us. I think that'll be put right next season but at the same time, if we get a draw like this season, it's going to be a trek.

 

[Danamy]

We have had some shit draws and no one can say otherwise and like any other cup comp, the luck of the draw is often needed.

Trouble is, unless we start to qualify from the groups and fast, the draws under the current system are never going to get easier and the money invested means failure is just not an option.

Its far more than just progression in a competition, its progression off it from a business point of view, particularly with FFPR in mind.

Im not saying we have to win the thing but getting past the group stages is a must!

We do know that Mancini has got out of the groups with Inter but not quite yet with us. I think that'll be put right next season but at the same time, if we get a draw like this season, it's going to be a trek.

You don't get many PM's do you The Future's Blue?

 

[Rammy Blue]

This thread is getting unbelievable and certain people getting quite precious. Mancini made a statement by bringing VK off and continued the statement by not giving him the high-five. VK could've stayed on, he'd completed the 90 for Belgium, but Mancini wanted to make a statement to the player. Now, if you think that Mancini should be giving the players the power to do as they please then that's up to you but in my book, there's can only be one boss and that is the manager. He's had to deal with a lot to get this team together, why should he let it go now, especially as one of the team went against an agreement made?

And as for the 'I could've punched him' statement, come on, he was laughing when he said it and was clearly having a joke.

Poor Vinny eh, goes against the club but we should all bow to him because he is the captain. He's a big boy and if he doesn't want to play by the clubs rules then he should be picked up for it. I wonder if people would think the same if it was someone like Carlos Tevez?

NB. Just watching the Chelsea v Rags game and noticed none of Rasher Chops subs got a high-five from him, not even a look to say well done.

I know this post was from earlier but couldn't let it slide.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Vince broke NO club rules.

 

[OB1]

In my opinion it's simply nothing more than a cup competition where a silly mistake can have you knocked out.

Sorry, Professor, but the group stage is not a cup competition. You would be right that, because that stage is a mini league, the margin for error is significantly reduced compared to a 38 game league season. Mancini though, as has been pointed out several times on this thread, has won only three games out of twelve with City; those victories were against a team heading for relegation and Bayern's reserves, whilst we managed to lose to Dortmund's reserves.

Mistakes by players had a part in it all but I don't believe that is the full explanation.

 

[TonyBook]

This thread is getting unbelievable and certain people getting quite precious. Mancini made a statement by bringing VK off and continued the statement by not giving him the high-five. VK could've stayed on, he'd completed the 90 for Belgium, but Mancini wanted to make a statement to the player. Now, if you think that Mancini should be giving the players the power to do as they please then that's up to you but in my book, there's can only be one boss and that is the manager. He's had to deal with a lot to get this team together, why should he let it go now, especially as one of the team went against an agreement made?

And as for the 'I could've punched him' statement, come on, he was laughing when he said it and was clearly having a joke.

Poor Vinny eh, goes against the club but we should all bow to him because he is the captain. He's a big boy and if he doesn't want to play by the clubs rules then he should be picked up for it. I wonder if people would think the same if it was someone like Carlos Tevez?

NB. Just watching the Chelsea v Rags game and noticed none of Rasher Chops subs got a high-five from him, not even a look to say well done.

I know this post was from earlier but couldn't let it slide.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Vince broke NO club rules.

This is one thing that saddens me. Clubs and supporters used to take pride in players playing for their country.

 

[Phil1]

This thread is getting unbelievable and certain people getting quite precious. Mancini made a statement by bringing VK off and continued the statement by not giving him the high-five. VK could've stayed on, he'd completed the 90 for Belgium, but Mancini wanted to make a statement to the player. Now, if you think that Mancini should be giving the players the power to do as they please then that's up to you but in my book, there's can only be one boss and that is the manager. He's had to deal with a lot to get this team together, why should he let it go now, especially as one of the team went against an agreement made?

And as for the 'I could've punched him' statement, come on, he was laughing when he said it and was clearly having a joke.

Poor Vinny eh, goes against the club but we should all bow to him because he is the captain. He's a big boy and if he doesn't want to play by the clubs rules then he should be picked up for it. I wonder if people would think the same if it was someone like Carlos Tevez?

NB. Just watching the Chelsea v Rags game and noticed none of Rasher Chops subs got a high-five from him, not even a look to say well done.

I know this post was from earlier but couldn't let it slide.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Vince broke NO club rules.

This is one thing that saddens me. Clubs and supporters used to take pride in players playing for their country.

Had Kompany played for Belgium on the back of a run of games for us I doubt anybody would care - the fact is that the circumstances in which he joined up were far from ideal and in this case Mancini was within his rights to sound off about it.

 

[Blue2112]

In my opinion it's simply nothing more than a cup competition where a silly mistake can have you knocked out.

Sorry, Professor, but the group stage is not a cup competition. You would be right that, because that stage is a mini league, the margin for error is significantly reduced compared to a 38 game league season. Mancini though, as has been pointed out several times on this thread, has won only three games out of twelve with City; those victories were against a team heading for relegation and Bayern's reserves, whilst we managed to lose to Dortmund's reserves.

Mistakes by players had a part in it all but I don't believe that is the full explanation.

It is indeed a mini league but with the added risk of a silly mistake and your playing catch up. Agreed it's not down to one thing and like I also said it's a combination of right manager, right players, right refereeing decisions, right draws and a whole lot of luck. Of course the more you progress each year the easier the following one becomes to get to the latter stages and we're currently fighting that battle. I like your professor reference very much ;-)