Mancini

[Davs 19]

Its called scraping the barrell...

Deliberately blanking and not acknowledging are no the same thing and I've frequently seen Mancini acknowledge players leaving the field.

As I said above, it's not about one incident it's about a trend, a trend that some us think is symptomatic of poor man-management.

You may not agree with the view that it is poor man-management but if you think such an opinion is scraping the barrel, it really is not worth discussing with you.

Funny that none of this so called 'poor man management' was mentioned at the end of last season,but last season no one ( well hardly anyone) wanted him out we'd just won the title...Now to fuel your argument its the be all and end all, and in my opinion scraping the barrel.

what do you want from Bob ?? group hugs,gold stars,high fives ?? He isnt that sort of bloke,but you,ve always known that.
Now its a stick to beat him with...

Last week after the loss to Everton it was his poor tactics and team selection being lambasted,this week after his 4-0 win its not tactics being criticised its his poor man mangement,the same man management that won us the title last year...

Bang on the money Sam but as the facts don't suit the 'outers' case, I'm sure the thread will stagger on until it becomes clear that, hopefully, Mancini is going nowhere.

 

[BobKowalski]

As a fence sitter with no personal agenda (since everyone here is labelled "inner" or "outer", there can be no middle ground apparently), I urge people to watch Bayern vs. Juventus tonight and in particular the tactics of both sides and how the teams play as a whole. I think Mancini is not as good tactically as some here seem to think, and relies too much on individual quality (throw 11 top players on to the pitch and they will get you far but the limitations will show in time, as they have) which is our problem more than anything.

Mancio has still not built a genuine team out of us, 11 players working together and for each other, and I'd like to hear a valid reason because there isn't one that I can think of. Yes, it can be tough with big name players but other managers do it. I loathe to say it but our most hated rivals are the best domestic example of a team, their individual quality is inferior to ours but they operate smoothly as a team so that even the weak links don't stand out too much and play their part.

We did win the league but I say again if not for the novelty of a new system that teams failed to understand for months we would not have won the league - the evidence is in how many points we started to drop from the West Brom game onward (they were the first to utilise the tactics that have since frustrated us so many times away from home). If teams had known that earlier, does anyone think we'd have finished level on points with United and not dropped more points? So we rode the novelty, fair enough, but the true challenge was always going to come later and we/he have failed to meet it.

Anyway, if tonight's match plays out how I expect it'll show the gulf in tactics between us and those two teams. And it's not an outright criticism, Mancini is a good coach but just quite a way off being a great one. The most valid reason for him staying IMO is if a greater one is unavailable. But if one is and if the chiefs do decide to replace him there will be some justification in the decision I think.

Interesting points. I think the premise that we don't play as team is false as Cabaye found out on Saturday - I love it when they do that prior to a match and then get royally stuffed. Defensively we have been rock solid over the last 3 seasons which to me is the sign of a team working well together and last year we combined that balance between defence and attack to great effect over the season. This year our attack has been at best average and the failure to convert chances has cost us a realistic chance at retaining the PL title. The coach at all times carries the blame if parts of our game are not working effectively and the offensive part clearly hasn't this year.

Bayern under Heynckes stuffed up the BL and CL and lost the German Cup final. The CL was lost against the 'park the bus' mentality we often face as did Barca under Pep so yes we do struggle against entrenched teams sometimes. Other times we tear them a new one. Arsenal won 2-0 in Munich and frankly could have snatched it with some luck so wasn't seeing too much of the 'playing together as a whole' bit. I did see a lot of headless panicking but they are I agree a top side and mostly they play as team. But not always. No team does.

In conclusion I reject the 'not a team' premise. We very often play as a team. You just don't win that many games or win the PL if you can't play as a team. Over 38 games you will get found out. The best team does win the title and right now we are the second best team.

 

[samharris]

Deliberately blanking and not acknowledging are no the same thing and I've frequently seen Mancini acknowledge players leaving the field.

As I said above, it's not about one incident it's about a trend, a trend that some us think is symptomatic of poor man-management.

You may not agree with the view that it is poor man-management but if you think such an opinion is scraping the barrel, it really is not worth discussing with you.

Funny that none of this so called 'poor man management' was mentioned at the end of last season,but last season no one ( well hardly anyone) wanted him out we'd just won the title...Now to fuel your argument its the be all and end all, and in my opinion scraping the barrel.

what do you want from Bob ?? group hugs,gold stars,high fives ?? He isnt that sort of bloke,but you,ve always known that.
Now its a stick to beat him with...

Last week after the loss to Everton it was his poor tactics and team selection being lambasted,this week after his 4-0 win its not tactics being criticised its his poor man mangement,the same man management that won us the title last year...

Bang on the money Sam but as the facts don't suit the 'outers' case, I'm sure the thread will stagger on until it becomes clear that, hopefully, Mancini is going nowhere.

I hope Bob stays put and I hope this thread is still going when this becomes knowledge..

I really do cos I will .......?........?........? he he he he.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I've read some crap in my time but the Mancini outers really are scrapping the barrel with their comments after the Newcastle game.

In his three years as a City manager I've only seen one woeful team selection AND bad substitutions combined - Admittedly it was the other week at Everton but even so as nobody gets it right every week and that's a pretty damn good record.

Be careful what you wish for. As Guardiola isn't interested and Mouriniho won't be considered the proven alternatives are not any better than Mancini.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Its called scraping the barrell...

Deliberately blanking and not acknowledging are no the same thing and I've frequently seen Mancini acknowledge players leaving the field.

As I said above, it's not about one incident it's about a trend, a trend that some us think is symptomatic of poor man-management.

You may not agree with the view that it is poor man-management but if you think such an opinion is scraping the barrel, it really is not worth discussing with you.

Really? Thats what its come down to? Can we let Ferran know? It has to be the first question. How effusive do you greet players when subbing them.

We don't want another blanker. Do we want handshakes. Pats on back. Sloppy kisses with tongues...

I fear I would be banned for a month of Sundays if I told you what I really thought of your utterly tedious prediliction for taking perfectly valid posts and pointlessly and sarcastically exaggerating them into something they were never intended to be. No, Mancini's management does not "come down" to how players react to him when they leave the field. Only a total prat (QED) would pretend It does. It's just an aspect of Mancini's management that continues to fail to impress and is part of the wider debate regarding his criticising players in public. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it worthy of debate on this forum? Absolutely, yes. Do us all a favour and have a day off FFS!

 

[martinmcfc]

sorry to hijack this thread, but can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction of how i can find out what time the city players are training at carrington on thursday as want to take my kids down there to get autographs as it is the easter holidays, thanks in advance!!!

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

I've read some crap in my time but the Mancini outers really are scrapping the barrel with their comments after the Newcastle game.

In his three years as a City manager I've only seen one woeful team selection AND bad substitutions combined - Admittedly it was the other week at Everton but even so as nobody gets it right every week and that's a pretty damn good record.

Be careful what you wish for. As Guardiola isn't interested and Mouriniho won't be considered the proven alternatives are not any better than Mancini.

Precisely. The same contributors can do nothing but criticise, but when asked to name a CREDIBLE replacement for Roberto, the silence becomes deafening. As you say, names such as Guardiola and Mourinho are at the top of anyone's wish list, but these candidates are right at the top of the tree and will only be tempted into Prime jobs, something that City have yet to become.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

As a fence sitter with no personal agenda (since everyone here is labelled "inner" or "outer", there can be no middle ground apparently), I urge people to watch Bayern vs. Juventus tonight and in particular the tactics of both sides and how the teams play as a whole. I think Mancini is not as good tactically as some here seem to think, and relies too much on individual quality (throw 11 top players on to the pitch and they will get you far but the limitations will show in time, as they have) which is our problem more than anything.

Mancio has still not built a genuine team out of us, 11 players working together and for each other, and I'd like to hear a valid reason because there isn't one that I can think of. Yes, it can be tough with big name players but other managers do it. I loathe to say it but our most hated rivals are the best domestic example of a team, their individual quality is inferior to ours but they operate smoothly as a team so that even the weak links don't stand out too much and play their part.

We did win the league but I say again if not for the novelty of a new system that teams failed to understand for months we would not have won the league - the evidence is in how many points we started to drop from the West Brom game onward (they were the first to utilise the tactics that have since frustrated us so many times away from home). If teams had known that earlier, does anyone think we'd have finished level on points with United and not dropped more points? So we rode the novelty, fair enough, but the true challenge was always going to come later and we/he have failed to meet it.

Anyway, if tonight's match plays out how I expect it'll show the gulf in tactics between us and those two teams. And it's not an outright criticism, Mancini is a good coach but just quite a way off being a great one. The most valid reason for him staying IMO is if a greater one is unavailable. But if one is and if the chiefs do decide to replace him there will be some justification in the decision I think.

Interesting points. I think the premise that we don't play as team is false as Cabaye found out on Saturday - I love it when they do that prior to a match and then get royally stuffed. Defensively we have been rock solid over the last 3 seasons which to me is the sign of a team working well together and last year we combined that balance between defence and attack to great effect over the season. This year our attack has been at best average and the failure to convert chances has cost us a realistic chance at retaining the PL title. The coach at all times carries the blame if parts of our game are not working effectively and the offensive part clearly hasn't this year.

Bayern under Heynckes stuffed up the BL and CL and lost the German Cup final. The CL was lost against the 'park the bus' mentality we often face as did Barca under Pep so yes we do struggle against entrenched teams sometimes. Other times we tear them a new one. Arsenal won 2-0 in Munich and frankly could have snatched it with some luck so wasn't seeing too much of the 'playing together as a whole' bit. I did see a lot of headless panicking but they are I agree a top side and mostly they play as team. But not always. No team does.

In conclusion I reject the 'not a team' premise. We very often play as a team. You just don't win that many games or win the PL if you can't play as a team. Over 38 games you will get found out. The best team does win the title and right now we are the second best team.

You know very little about football mate, if I'm honest. 'Our failure to take chances has cost us the league title' is the kind of Janet and John sentiment I expect from the cellar crowd. We have conceded the midfield too many times by having the holding players sitting too deep. We have had reduced penetration from the midfield areas because we have lost our tempo across the whole park. We have had nothing to offer wide because our available full backs aren't mobile enough. We've left ourselves exposed on the flanks with our 352. We have a forward who loses us passing momentum by running down blind alleys.

There are lots of reasons why we have under performed this year and 'missing chances' is about seventh on the list.

Stick to the sarcasm mate, you're out of your depth on the other stuff being really honest. Moomba/Ducado level.

 

[samharris]

Deliberately blanking and not acknowledging are no the same thing and I've frequently seen Mancini acknowledge players leaving the field.

As I said above, it's not about one incident it's about a trend, a trend that some us think is symptomatic of poor man-management.

You may not agree with the view that it is poor man-management but if you think such an opinion is scraping the barrel, it really is not worth discussing with you.

Really? Thats what its come down to? Can we let Ferran know? It has to be the first question. How effusive do you greet players when subbing them.

We don't want another blanker. Do we want handshakes. Pats on back. Sloppy kisses with tongues...

I fear I would be banned for a month of Sundays if I told you what I really thought of your utterly tedious prediliction for taking perfectly valid posts and pointlessly and sarcastically exaggerating them into something they were never intended to be. No, Mancini's management does not "come down" to how players react to him when they leave the field. Only a total prat (QED) would pretend they do. It's just an aspect of Mancini's management that continues to fail to impress and is part of the wider debate regarding his criticising players in public. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it worthy of debate on this forum? Absolutely, yes. Do us all a favour and have a day off FFS!

Mancinis man management skills were tested to the full last season with the Tevez warm up at Bayern Munich. City then went on to win the title with the previous seasons top scorer (Tevez) out/awol for 6 months playing golf..

I think Bobs man management skills are not as bad as some are making out,how else did we achieve what we did last season ??

 

[LoveCity]

In conclusion I reject the 'not a team' premise. We very often play as a team. You just don't win that many games or win the PL if you can't play as a team. Over 38 games you will get found out. The best team does win the title and right now we are the second best team.

If we're such an efficient team, why can Mancini not get the most out of half of our players? He only seems to get as much juice as possible out of our defensive players (except Kolarov who is beyond help) while attack-minded players like Aguero, Silva, Dzeko, Balotelli, and Nasri have all underperformed and have often looked frustrated, as if they're on some sort of invisible leash (and some would place the blame on all of them individually, but isn't it an awfully big coincidence?). Mancini is a very good defensive coach at organising teams the Italian way, but seems unable to put together a truly great attacking side and the only way we play free flowing football are against naive teams who don't copy others who figured out how to counter us.

I'd put it down to his stubbornness and one-track mind when it comes to how we should play, there is very little in the way of variety or unpredictability in which to catch the opposing team off guard. He isn't very flexible at all, he doesn't seem to have done any work on our off-the-ball strategies which is how you break teams down when you have players making intelligent runs in twos and threes to confuse defenders and create gaps (ours just stand still waiting for the ball most of the time). There is also a lack of fluency between defence, midfield, and attack which explains that stagnant feel that you can't deny exists in so many of our games - the slow, ponderous, uncreative approach that sees us march up field then turn back. Defender passes to midfielder, midfielder to defender, defender to goalkeeper, goalkeeper to defender, defender to midfielder... the clock ticks. Not even Serie A teams so often send the ball back to the defender from an attacking position like we do, simply because they don't know what else to do. And this all comes down to Mancini's tactics and team-building ability.

We're truly found out when we play against high tempo, high pressing units who really seem to give everything for their manager and work for each other. Ajax, Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Everton, Liverpool, Southampton, Swansea (last season) have all beaten or drawn with us playing this way. A growing list of teams and unless we fundamentally change we better pray more teams don't end up playing this way or it'll mean more dropped points for sure. A lack of togetherness shows in these games. We're very fortunate there are still teams like Newcastle who offer us space to play and haven't copied the others yet.

Do you not find it strange that we are so rarely able to play really well? When we play very well, as we did against Newcastle, it's a cause for special mention when it should be a common event. Do we blame the squad - valued as the third highest in world football at Transfermarkt - for this when Frank de Boer managed to get a team that cost £4million (less than Scott Sinclair) to build, and featured Liverpool rejects Babel and Poulsen, to function perfectly as a unit and take 4pts from us through superior tactics and hunger from the players?

Our whole 'teamwork' aspect is really lacking IMO, if you look closely it even shows in the basics like throw-ins where the throw-in taker often take forever to release the ball because no one shows for it as his team-mates are just standing around.