Mancini

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Exeter Blue I am here said:
BobKowalski said:
Really? Thats what its come down to? Can we let Ferran know? It has to be the first question. How effusive do you greet players when subbing them.

We don't want another blanker. Do we want handshakes. Pats on back. Sloppy kisses with tongues...

I fear I would be banned for a month of Sundays if I told you what I really thought of your utterly tedious prediliction for taking perfectly valid posts and pointlessly and sarcastically exaggerating them into something they were never intended to be. No, Mancini's management does not "come down" to how players react to him when they leave the field. Only a total prat (QED) would pretend they do. It's just an aspect of Mancini's management that continues to fail to impress and is part of the wider debate regarding his criticising players in public. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it worthy of debate on this forum? Absolutely, yes. Do us all a favour and have a day off FFS!

Ah I can see where you went awry. Its an easy mistake to make. The mistake is confusing the post in question with a 'perfectly valid post'. If its valid I respond in kind. If its dribbling nonsense then you get the whole 'pointlessly and sarcastically exaggerating them into something they were never...yada, yada' bit.

Oh and make it snappier next time. Give it some zing - a bit of punch. You sort of meandered aimlessly. Not good. C+
 
I'm no cynic said:
FantasyIreland said:
BobKowalski said:
[Christ on a bike I've been lol'ed

I havn't changed my thinking(or parameters......) from the outset.
Mancini is good manager who has his limitations,success in Europe being high up in that list.

Judging the man on his overall management credentials suggest he falls short in areas crucial to our progress and future success,as you have pointed out,that goes well beyond his tenure here.

We are one of the biggest teams in the world now,failing in Europe and falling out with players on a regular basis is not what is required of the man chosen to guide us towards being the best.

Then name a successor. Not a pie-in-the-sky name, just someone credible and with a CV to back him up.

You mean someone like Pep who was chosen in front of Mourinho, who in fact was a pie-in-the-sky-name, who wasn't credible at the time and had no CV?

Didn't work out too bad that gig if i remember, just saying?
 
M11 3FF said:
I'm no cynic said:
FantasyIreland said:
I havn't changed my thinking(or parameters......) from the outset.
Mancini is good manager who has his limitations,success in Europe being high up in that list.

Judging the man on his overall management credentials suggest he falls short in areas crucial to our progress and future success,as you have pointed out,that goes well beyond his tenure here.

We are one of the biggest teams in the world now,failing in Europe and falling out with players on a regular basis is not what is required of the man chosen to guide us towards being the best.

Then name a successor. Not a pie-in-the-sky name, just someone credible and with a CV to back him up.

You mean someone like Pep who was chosen in front of Mourinho, who in fact was a pie-in-the-sky-name, who wasn't credible at the time and had no CV?

Didn't work out too bad that gig if i remember, just saying?

We don't really know yet how good Pep is as this season they haven't done too bad without him , without anybody actually for much of this season.
 
M11 3FF said:
I'm no cynic said:
FantasyIreland said:
I havn't changed my thinking(or parameters......) from the outset.
Mancini is good manager who has his limitations,success in Europe being high up in that list.

Judging the man on his overall management credentials suggest he falls short in areas crucial to our progress and future success,as you have pointed out,that goes well beyond his tenure here.

We are one of the biggest teams in the world now,failing in Europe and falling out with players on a regular basis is not what is required of the man chosen to guide us towards being the best.

Then name a successor. Not a pie-in-the-sky name, just someone credible and with a CV to back him up.

You mean someone like Pep who was chosen in front of Mourinho, who in fact was a pie-in-the-sky-name, who wasn't credible at the time and had no CV?

Didn't work out too bad that gig if i remember, just saying?

He was already in situ at Barca and our Barca connections knew all about him, having helped bring through Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. It was a simple matter to promote him to work in a familiar set-up and a familiar league and if it hadn't worked out, he would soon have been replaced. Our situation is different. There is no-one in situ at City who is set to make that jump, and I will assume there aren't too many candidates in the outside world who could be trusted. De Boer, maybe, but he would have to be doing it in a different country with a more intense style than he has to cope with right now, and trips to Stoke and Everton would be a crude shock to the system.
 
LoveCity said:
BobKowalski said:
In conclusion I reject the 'not a team' premise. We very often play as a team. You just don't win that many games or win the PL if you can't play as a team. Over 38 games you will get found out. The best team does win the title and right now we are the second best team.

If we're such an efficient team, why can Mancini not get the most out of half of our players? He only seems to get as much juice as possible out of our defensive players (except Kolarov who is beyond help) while attack-minded players like Aguero, Silva, Dzeko, Balotelli, and Nasri have all underperformed and have often looked frustrated, as if they're on some sort of invisible leash (and some would place the blame on all of them individually, but isn't it an awfully big coincidence?). Mancini is a very good defensive coach at organising teams the Italian way, but seems unable to put together a truly great attacking side and the only way we play free flowing football are against naive teams who don't copy others who figured out how to counter us.

I'd put it down to his stubbornness and one-track mind when it comes to how we should play, there is very little in the way of variety or unpredictability in which to catch the opposing team off guard. He isn't very flexible at all, he doesn't seem to have done any work on our off-the-ball strategies which is how you break teams down when you have players making intelligent runs in twos and threes to confuse defenders and create gaps (ours just stand still waiting for the ball most of the time). There is also a lack of fluency between defence, midfield, and attack which explains that stagnant feel that you can't deny exists in so many of our games - the slow, ponderous, uncreative approach that sees us march up field then turn back. Defender passes to midfielder, midfielder to defender, defender to goalkeeper, goalkeeper to defender, defender to midfielder... the clock ticks. Not even Serie A teams so often send the ball back to the defender from an attacking position like we do, simply because they don't know what else to do. And this all comes down to Mancini's tactics and team-building ability.

We're truly found out when we play against high tempo, high pressing units who really seem to give everything for their manager and work for each other. Ajax, Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Everton, Liverpool, Southampton, Swansea (last season) have all beaten or drawn with us playing this way. A growing list of teams and unless we fundamentally change we better pray more teams don't end up playing this way or it'll mean more dropped points for sure. A lack of togetherness shows in these games. We're very fortunate there are still teams like Newcastle who offer us space to play and haven't copied the others yet.

Do you not find it strange that we are so rarely able to play really well? When we play very well, as we did against Newcastle, it's a cause for special mention when it should be a common event. Do we blame the squad - valued as the third highest in world football at Transfermarkt - for this when Frank de Boer managed to get a team that cost £4million (less than Scott Sinclair) to build, and featured Liverpool rejects Babel and Poulsen, to function perfectly as a unit and take 4pts from us through superior tactics and hunger from the players?

Our whole 'teamwork' aspect is really lacking IMO, if you look closely it even shows in the basics like throw-ins where the throw-in taker often take forever to release the ball because no one shows for it as his team-mates are just standing around.

In no particular order. Ajax and De Boer. I agree that he and Ajax did a superb job against us and Mancini in the first game especially stuffed it up. But that assumes Ajax are always that good. Week in. Week out. You and I watch pretty much every game that City play be it live or on TV. How often do you watch Ajax? You have to watch at least a representation of Ajax's games if you want to draw direct comparisons. Its like watching the 6-1 and concluding that Taggart is a total duffer and Mancini is a genius based on that one game.

I am probably alone but I don't get this 'we rarely play well' bit. We often play well. Sometimes we play so-so and sometimes we stink the place out. I accept that this season there has been less 'playing well' but christ we are still second and have at least battled well in matches. West Brom a man down early on then a goal down with what 10 mins to go and then win 2-1. Norwich away bloody exciting that was...anyway I'm rambling and you can no doubt pick matches that illustrate what you are saying and yes at times you are right but I still maintain that over a 38 game season you get found out if you are not a team.

Possibly this season is that start of that being found out and that Mancini is a manger with a 3 year cycle. Lots of coaches are and if so he will be replaced which is fine and the way it goes.

Have to shoot so this is a bit rushed just wanted to address some of the points raised.
 
I'm no cynic said:
He was already in situ at Barca and our Barca connections knew all about him, having helped bring through Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. It was a simple matter to promote him to work in a familiar set-up and a familiar league and if it hadn't worked out, he would soon have been replaced.

Soriano and Txiki were also part of the group with Laporta that recruited Rijkaard who had been a failure managing Holland and Sparta Rotterdam leading into becoming a successful manager for Barcelona.

Txiki, called the "kingmaker" and very influential in appointing managers as he will be at City, seemed to recognise something in both unproven managers (Riijkard and Pep - the latter of whom he chose over Mourinho!), that would work with what Barcelona were building.

So, let's say he goes and brings in a "WTF!?" name this summer - Valverde or De Boer for example - that leaves City fans in despair, it may turn out 100x better in reality than on paper because he (and Soriano) have done this before.

How do you reckon Barcelona fans felt when they appointed Rijkaard who had managed a shocking 15% win rate at Sparta Rotterdam leading into his Barcelona appointment (which led to two La Liga wins, two Copa del Rey wins, one Champions League win, and being named UEFA Manager of the Year)? These guys will consider variables that none of us probably do.
 
I'm no cynic said:
M11 3FF said:
I'm no cynic said:
Then name a successor. Not a pie-in-the-sky name, just someone credible and with a CV to back him up.

You mean someone like Pep who was chosen in front of Mourinho, who in fact was a pie-in-the-sky-name, who wasn't credible at the time and had no CV?

Didn't work out too bad that gig if i remember, just saying?

He was already in situ at Barca and our Barca connections knew all about him, having helped bring through Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. It was a simple matter to promote him to work in a familiar set-up and a familiar league and if it hadn't worked out, he would soon have been replaced. Our situation is different. There is no-one in situ at City who is set to make that jump, and I will assume there aren't too many candidates in the outside world who could be trusted. De Boer, maybe, but he would have to be doing it in a different country with a more intense style than he has to cope with right now, and trips to Stoke and Everton would be a crude shock to the system.

Vieira?
 
M11 3FF said:
I'm no cynic said:
M11 3FF said:
You mean someone like Pep who was chosen in front of Mourinho, who in fact was a pie-in-the-sky-name, who wasn't credible at the time and had no CV?

Didn't work out too bad that gig if i remember, just saying?

He was already in situ at Barca and our Barca connections knew all about him, having helped bring through Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. It was a simple matter to promote him to work in a familiar set-up and a familiar league and if it hadn't worked out, he would soon have been replaced. Our situation is different. There is no-one in situ at City who is set to make that jump, and I will assume there aren't too many candidates in the outside world who could be trusted. De Boer, maybe, but he would have to be doing it in a different country with a more intense style than he has to cope with right now, and trips to Stoke and Everton would be a crude shock to the system.

Vieira?

I'd like that.
 
BobKowalski said:
Exeter Blue I am here said:
BobKowalski said:
Really? Thats what its come down to? Can we let Ferran know? It has to be the first question. How effusive do you greet players when subbing them.

We don't want another blanker. Do we want handshakes. Pats on back. Sloppy kisses with tongues...

I fear I would be banned for a month of Sundays if I told you what I really thought of your utterly tedious prediliction for taking perfectly valid posts and pointlessly and sarcastically exaggerating them into something they were never intended to be. No, Mancini's management does not "come down" to how players react to him when they leave the field. Only a total prat (QED) would pretend they do. It's just an aspect of Mancini's management that continues to fail to impress and is part of the wider debate regarding his criticising players in public. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it worthy of debate on this forum? Absolutely, yes. Do us all a favour and have a day off FFS!

Ah I can see where you went awry. Its an easy mistake to make. The mistake is confusing the post in question with a 'perfectly valid post'. If its valid I respond in kind. If its dribbling nonsense then you get the whole 'pointlessly and sarcastically exaggerating them into something they were never...yada, yada' bit.

Oh and make it snappier next time. Give it some zing - a bit of punch. You sort of meandered aimlessly. Not good. C+

Zzzzzzzzz. I would have laid money on a patronising "talk down to a small child" kind of reply, if only because you so evidently have nothing substantial to say, and the sneering, blustering blowhard approach serves to divert attention away from that very obvious fact. Or at least it would have done, if only you had had the wit or the gumption to pull it off. Alas........Pathetic
 
M11 3FF said:
I'm no cynic said:
M11 3FF said:
You mean someone like Pep who was chosen in front of Mourinho, who in fact was a pie-in-the-sky-name, who wasn't credible at the time and had no CV?

Didn't work out too bad that gig if i remember, just saying?

He was already in situ at Barca and our Barca connections knew all about him, having helped bring through Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. It was a simple matter to promote him to work in a familiar set-up and a familiar league and if it hadn't worked out, he would soon have been replaced. Our situation is different. There is no-one in situ at City who is set to make that jump, and I will assume there aren't too many candidates in the outside world who could be trusted. De Boer, maybe, but he would have to be doing it in a different country with a more intense style than he has to cope with right now, and trips to Stoke and Everton would be a crude shock to the system.

Vieira?

Yep I,ve said that before,when Bob steps down in 3/4 years time ,Pat would be a good successor.
 
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