Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[PragueBlue]

Chelsea managed to bag themselves a world class manager, 3 world class players and actually make money on these transfers

We have a poor manager, bought no world class players and spent a fair bit of money

Those in charge need a rethink

We need a new manager and to sell some of our assets otherwise next season will be worse

Its easy to make money on transfers when you can sell a truckload of players bought before FFP came into effect.

They have a manager that will probably end his first seasons back at Chelsea by winning a league title and league cup. Exactly what Pellegrini will win in his first two seasons.

Things arent great but lets not go overboard with Chelsea.

While that's true, they are showing a progression from no trophies to a double while we are showing a regression. I think we can all accept not winning games/trophies as long as we can see that some progression that it is all part of a cohesive plan.

 

[flb]

Not having people blaming Pellegrini for leaving Jovetic out, that's just a step too far IMO

The fella has been out injured for a large chunk of his career, can you imagine the situation where we put him in the CL squad, for him to get injured before the games with Barcelona, leaving us a striker short and people falling over themselves to come on here and have a pop at him for selecting Jovetic but leaving out our new £28 million pound goalscorer

I'm not a fan of Pellegrini, but if you're going to criticise him or anyone at least make sure it has some credit

He was 100% correct in leaving him out and putting Bony in, regardless of how things pan out in the second leg

Can't recall Jovetic being injured when the squad was announced? He has experience of European competition and he isn't an out and out striker, whichever way you dress it up its poor man management with two of his close friends in the squad, It's as big a gamble expecting Bony to perform straight away against Barcelona.Jovetic offers a good backup if Nasri or Silva get injured who also play the stand in number 10 role.

Jovetic has been alienated from the squad for the rest of the season in all remaining competitions and not just a competition we haven't a chance of winning.

 

[BobKowalski]

One man's ditherance is another man's patience.

Remember when we didn't demand the manager's head if we didn't win a game and the idea of a manager only getting 18 months was absolutely ridiculous?

Those were the days. Barely 5 years ago.

It's not about winning a game or results. It's about performances. Ferran is all about performances and how if you get that right then the rest follows. Right now our performances this season have been below par. Defensively we are now in 'concede a goal a game' territory. We look mentally shot at the back and for creativity and flair to prosper the players need confidence in themselves and each other which we lack on a consistent basis. Pellers said it himself that the players lack trust in each other and thus we do not play our normal game.

And that ultimately is Pellers job right now. Get that trust into the team. Get confidence into the team and on a personal note stop conceding bloody goals as it is bleeding whatever confidence we have left. If he cannot do that and therefore cannot improve the level of performance on a consistent basis then he will go. Conversely if he can do it and there is a big upturn in performance then he likely stays even if we win nothing.

This can be justified to sack anybody. Mourinho can be sacked under these pretenses.

It's an example of something I said in another thread where I feel some people are using words which are very poorly defined and on their own don't actually mean anything at all. Follow the logic here:

Results don't matter, we want good performances. Though good performances are what leads to results. So we want the primary driver of results but not results.

Is a roundabout way of saying that you want results. Teams who play well win games and that is the thing that is missing here - as evidenced by this very forum on numerous occasions where we've played well and not gotten three points or when we haven't played well and have won.

Making an admittedly poor analogy, it's like saying that you don't want spaghetti bolognese. You just want somebody to put spaghetti in boiling water, stick some mince in a pan with some sauce and whatever happens happens. You're just as happy with it coming back as a pizza as you are as spaghetti bolognese.

There are some other terms in the post that are again under the banner of "poorly defined terms that don't mean anything". I mean, I know that you know what you mean by them but everybody else has their own interpretation of them so they are bad ways to explain your point. What exactly does "mentally shot" mean and how do you judge this in a player specifically? What is the threshold for that and how can you tell if a person is a bit mentally shot compared to a person a lot mentally shot or people not mentally shot at all?

I'm rather big on trying to draw out specifics to an argument rather than these huge and undefined concepts that we talk to each other in as I think it helps everybody to explain what they mean and forces them to put up specific points that then others can talk about. We could spend the next 10 years arguing about if we lack "flair" or not and get nowhere as flair is a word that doesn't really mean anything. Like pornography, people are good at knowing when they see it

So I want results? Well of course I want results. I doubt there are many at City who say"Results? Meh. Can take them or leave them. Not fussed". Results are an objective barometer of where you are and how you are doing. But how you get those positive results is subjective in that there are many different routes to the same goal and they are not the only way to measure the playing or coaching staff.

Performance level is both subjective and objective. Is our defence calm and composed or as skittish as a Thompson Gazelle around a popular watering hole? Subjective. Are we conceding more goals? Objective. In 11/12 we conceded 29 goals out of 38 games. In 12/13 we conceded 34 goals out of 38 games (three of which came in that meaningless and manager less farce against Norwich). In 13/14 we conceded 37 goals. To date we have conceded 27 out of 27. Right now we concede a goal a game. Subjectively and objectively that is fucking awful. If you spend circa £50m on upgrading your defensive unit and then proceed to ship in even more goals the board would be entitled to enquire why this is so. If you fail to win anything the board may be forgiven for thinking that as a manager you are either a) not getting enough out of your new defensive unit or b) your DoF bought a pair of lemons.

But this is just one metric out of many on which you can subjectively and objectively judge the teams performance. The defensive failures are not isolated to the defensive players. Are we defending as a team or in isolated units? Is the team being sufficiently coached in its defensive responsibilities? Is the set up wrong? Is it both? Is it a concentration issue due to fitness issues and so on and so on.

As fans watching from the outside we cannot really make an informed decision as to why the performance levels this season have been below par as we do not have access to the necessary information. But we can see that they have been below par because (a) we are not blind and (b) the sequence of results has been poor. Any team can lose any game. If a team puts together a sequence of poor results there are factors at play other than just one off 'shit happens'. Pellers has talked about a 'lack of trust in each other' of 'being nervous'. I interpret this as lacking confidence and when you lack confidence it inhibits decision making which in turn impacts on creativity. Players pick the safe option rather than the bold one etc.

So yes results matter but we also want performances with those results given that was the 'narrative' behind appointing Pellers. Now to a certain extent we were also sold a lot of PR bull and I doubt we would endure years of potless but entertaining performances. But we would settle for a potless year if our level of performance was satisfactory and we just got pipped by a team that did a slightly better job. Its sport and all the money does is insure that in all probability you will win something but not guarantee it.

And 1) if I recall Mourinho was initially sacked over level of performance rather than results so yes 2) If I order spag bol its because I want spag bol and not pizza and 3) what I like in my porn is between me and my internet provider, HM Government, GCHQ, the NSA, the CIA and any other fucker on the planet it would seem.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Chelsea managed to bag themselves a world class manager, 3 world class players and actually make money on these transfers

We have a poor manager, bought no world class players and spent a fair bit of money

Those in charge need a rethink

We need a new manager and to sell some of our assets otherwise next season will be worse

Its easy to make money on transfers when you can sell a truckload of players bought before FFP came into effect.

They have a manager that will probably end his first seasons back at Chelsea by winning a league title and league cup. Exactly what Pellegrini will win in his first two seasons.

Things arent great but lets not go overboard with Chelsea.

While that's true, they are showing a progression from no trophies to a double while we are showing a regression. I think we can all accept not winning games/trophies as long as we can see that some progression that it is all part of a cohesive plan.

I want Pellers to turn our form around but some of his decisions in the last two games have defied football logic.

Aguero was first on the team sheet vs Barca so also picking Dzeko would lead to us being overrun in midfield. Yesterday then the conditions were dreadful and we could hardly clear the ball to the half way line, Pellers takes off Dzeko and leaves Aguero on. Again we were being overrun in midfield.

It wouldn't have been rocket science to pick 5 in midfield for both games with Aguero up front versus Barca and Dzeko being the lone striker versus Liverpool.

 

[burns1702]

This season speaks for it's self, knocked out of the Cups by Newcastle and Boro at home, CL could be argued one maybe two decent performances, Roma away and Bayern at home(they were down to 10 men though), PL already lost at home to Stoke and Arsenal, dropped points to Hull and Burnley. Just not good enough, his buys have been poor, spends close to £30m on a striker who then buggers off to the African Nations and when he comes back can't get a game, been crying out for a top draw centre half, he spends £32m on Mangala, is he the answer ?
Tactically clueless, he has to go at the end of the season, Simeone or Guardiola for me.

 

[flb]

Fact is, last year we were voted as favorite contenders for the championship, yet, as soon as Maureen's been back in charge and although he has been limited in terms of recruitment, he still managed to nick a third place, finishing only four points behind us.
This season he was expected to have a real go at the title, and guess what, he doesn't fail to deliver.
That just sums it for me.
You can rightly despise the cxnt but result wise, he is several levels ahead of any manager we ever had.
If you want to outplay the Portuguese at the title race and tower over him at the top of the championship table,
you either have to gather a squad he can't compete with talent wise, or get a manager who is better than him.
Actually, we don't have the later and our squad just don't overpowers his, thus we are in a check-mate position.

We need to target the likes of Ancelotti, Pep and Simeone, for starters and let them mold the team as they wishes.
None of these would disappoint as much as Mancini or Pellers did.

So your disappointed with two league titles, Knock out stages of CL, an FA, COC and CS. FFS

We cannot and should not expect to win every game or comp we enter

Some fans have become so spoilt, it borders on pathetic, even raggish.

Rubbish, all fans are after is progress on the pitch this season, we have gone backwards and bought poorly and the players appear to be burnt out, if that's acceptable to you then fair enough but don't expect fans not to voice there concerns over it.

This clown has run out of ideas and has one foot back on the plane to Chile.

 

[flb]

Exactly what I said on here yesterday. Some comments on here are embarrassing, a trophyless season is now the end of the world for city fans. Other fans coming on here for a look must think we're mental, it's no suprise why were hated now.

Believe it or not, most posters can accept not winning trophies - it's the regression on the pitch that is attracting the criticism. Playing well but losing out is one thing, but lethargy and ineptness are another.

I can believe that.

What I cannot believe is the self entitlement mentality that many so called City fans have. FFS Bony is now in the firing line for being shite. Many of our players have had shitloads of abuse from so called fans on here, some warranted, much of it not, and the lucky few are ringfenced and can do no wrong.

We play poorly, lose a game and all hell breaks loose. Other fans looking in will be pissing themselves and reinforcing their beliefs that City is a club with just plastic fans.

If we were to go back to where we came from it would be interesting to see how many posters we lose on BM

Knowing City fans there would probably be more.

 

[B\connellblue]

He had better get his finger out from now until the end of the season as top 3 needs to be secured at all costs. I would wager all I have which isn't a whole lot if I'm honest that he's gone no matter what now, and worryingly I get the impression he already knows it.

 

[i8rags]

Where's my post gone?

 

[flb]

Ditto, things are getting heated perhaps?