No what I'm pointing out is this a. There are no available replacements better as far as I can see. B. If Pep can (according to you probably) coach average players like Fernando into playing his way, I'm sure he can do it with one of the best keepers in the world. To say we need to replace hart before getting a CB, cf, fullbacks and someone to help aguero out is just ludicrous. Put a decent back four in front of joe and he won't have any problems.
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Marc-Andre ter Stegen
- Thread starter FantasyIreland
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So what are his flaws? Distribution? Pmsl. Is any of what I wrote about his performances for city especially in big games and in Europe wrong? No mate. How much have you even seen of ter Stegen? Nothing I wrote about the likes of bony and Fernando is wrong either mate. Hart has never let city down end of.What makes me chuckle is people so blind to his flaws they make straw men arguments and generalisations which make them look daft.
twoddlehopper
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Careful now, you've got far to much common sense in that post for the Hart outers to except.No what I'm pointing out is this a. There are no available replacements better as far as I can see. B. If Pep can (according to you probably) coach average players like Fernando into playing his way, I'm sure he can do it with one of the best keepers in the world. To say we need to replace hart before getting a CB, cf, fullbacks and someone to help aguero out is just ludicrous. Put a decent back four in front of joe and he won't have any problems.
mosssideblue
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No what I'm pointing out is this a. There are no available replacements better as far as I can see. B. If Pep can (according to you probably) coach average players like Fernando into playing his way, I'm sure he can do it with one of the best keepers in the world. To say we need to replace hart before getting a CB, cf, fullbacks and someone to help aguero out is just ludicrous. Put a decent back four in front of joe and he won't have any problems.
But clearly we will have. I'm not knocking Joe as he is a fantastic keeper in the traditional sense. The problem as I see it, is that pep wants more than a traditional keeper as his philosophy starts from the back, and that requires the keeper to be more involved than simply keeping goal. From what we saw yesterday, Joe's instinct is still to lump it out. Willy tried Peps ways but clearly looks uncomfortable and as someone pointed out earlier, of the keepers we have, Gunn looks the most assured in adopting Peps ways.
hartshairgel
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"Never let city down" !! Really ? There have been a few, lets be honest. But for me the priority should be full backs and central midfield. I am surprised Kolarov, Zabaleta, Toure and Fernando are staying but probably because we can't shift. Pointless having a keeper like Ter Stegen if your back four aren't good enough.So what are his flaws? Distribution? Pmsl. Is any of what I wrote about his performances for city especially in big games and in Europe wrong? No mate. How much have you even seen of ter Stegen? Nothing I wrote about the likes of bony and Fernando is wrong either mate. Hart has never let city down end of.
Do you honestly think pep cares more about goal kicks than making saves? I understand he likes to build from the back but he will want a keeper first and foremost. The system requires defenders who can play more than a keeper who can. Hart won't be coming out from the back with the ball aka Pique or Boateng! Do you honestly think that Hart can't if required learn to play a 12 yard pass to a defender from a goal kick? Are you suggesting you'd prefer Gunn to Hart?But clearly we will have. I'm not knocking Joe as he is a fantastic keeper in the traditional sense. The problem as I see it, is that pep wants more than a traditional keeper as his philosophy starts from the back, and that requires the keeper to be more involved than simply keeping goal. From what we saw yesterday, Joe's instinct is still to lump it out. Willy tried Peps ways but clearly looks uncomfortable and as someone pointed out earlier, of the keepers we have, Gunn looks the most assured in adopting Peps ways.
Danny_Johnson4
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Im Sorry but Gunn was poor in pre season, bar the PK shootout. I really want him to do well but ive never seen him look anything other that nervous and jittery, so he certainly isnt more assured than Joe Hart
But people on this thread seem totally oblivious to the fact Hart is clearly not good enough for what we need. Simple. end of. fact.
As good as he has been, he simply cannot do what pep needs a keeper to do..
we have been training ALL pre season for playing across the box at the back, and Harts first 4 touches were atrocious pumps up the field yesterday because he failed or refused to see the easy passes on for him early enough
By the time his brain engaged they were locked off, so he punted the ball up field
One punt gave possession away and thus they went on to score
Again, ideally Hart would be able to perform in this style as hes been such a servant to the club, but he is pretty clearly the main fall guy in this whole revolution as some are calling it, but I for one dont know why this a ter stegen thread because I dont see how on earth we get him out of barca without paying the daft release clause
Its a weird situation, but one we should not have to be talking about 5 days away from the kick off..
But people on this thread seem totally oblivious to the fact Hart is clearly not good enough for what we need. Simple. end of. fact.
As good as he has been, he simply cannot do what pep needs a keeper to do..
we have been training ALL pre season for playing across the box at the back, and Harts first 4 touches were atrocious pumps up the field yesterday because he failed or refused to see the easy passes on for him early enough
By the time his brain engaged they were locked off, so he punted the ball up field
One punt gave possession away and thus they went on to score
Again, ideally Hart would be able to perform in this style as hes been such a servant to the club, but he is pretty clearly the main fall guy in this whole revolution as some are calling it, but I for one dont know why this a ter stegen thread because I dont see how on earth we get him out of barca without paying the daft release clause
Its a weird situation, but one we should not have to be talking about 5 days away from the kick off..
Harts distribution is poor, always has been. He will never be good enough for what Pep wants.Do you honestly think pep cares more about goal kicks than making saves? I understand he likes to build from the back but he will want a keeper first and foremost. The system requires defenders who can play more than a keeper who can. Hart won't be coming out from the back with the ball aka Pique or Boateng! Do you honestly think that Hart can't if required learn to play a 12 yard pass to a defender from a goal kick? Are you suggesting you'd prefer Gunn to Hart?
FanchesterCity
Well-Known Member
i'm not buying this ''he has to play with the ball at his feet' line.
I think Neuer has set an incredible example of it, but most of the world's keepers simply aren't like him, and it's not a prerequisite for success - being a good keeper is.
If Pep doesn't think Joe is good enough, then that's his view, and he'll act accordingly, but I doubt it'll just be down to 'playing from the back'.
It also raises another question about where you draw the line with a player - how soon does a coach decide he's never going to be good enough? how long does a coach actually 'coach' that player before deciding he can do no more? and if he just replaces certain players that don't 'fit' - then is he really coaching, or is he just a manager with a keen eye for talent and enough money to buy the best?
If we are just going to ditch players he doesn't think are up to the job and buy in players that are - then so be it, but let's not call that coaching - it's not.
I think Neuer has set an incredible example of it, but most of the world's keepers simply aren't like him, and it's not a prerequisite for success - being a good keeper is.
If Pep doesn't think Joe is good enough, then that's his view, and he'll act accordingly, but I doubt it'll just be down to 'playing from the back'.
It also raises another question about where you draw the line with a player - how soon does a coach decide he's never going to be good enough? how long does a coach actually 'coach' that player before deciding he can do no more? and if he just replaces certain players that don't 'fit' - then is he really coaching, or is he just a manager with a keen eye for talent and enough money to buy the best?
If we are just going to ditch players he doesn't think are up to the job and buy in players that are - then so be it, but let's not call that coaching - it's not.
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
Do you honestly think pep cares more about goal kicks than making saves? I understand he likes to build from the back but he will want a keeper first and foremost. The system requires defenders who can play more than a keeper who can. Hart won't be coming out from the back with the ball aka Pique or Boateng! Do you honestly think that Hart can't if required learn to play a 12 yard pass to a defender from a goal kick? Are you suggesting you'd prefer Gunn to Hart?
It doesn't matter what you or I think. From what we have seen in pre season training, pep wants a keeper to be accomplished with the ball at his feet (obviously, he needs to keep the ball out of the net too). From what we have seen in pre season (and appreciate Joe has had minimal time), Gunn is better than Willy and Joe at that aspect of the game. Clearly, Joe is a better traditional keeper that both of them, but whether that is enough for pep to keep Joe this season, who knows.
The fact that we seem to be linked with quality keepers is great for City as it means we are strengthening our position as a squad. If that person Usurps Joe, then it is because pep sees it that way. If Joe develops new skills and keeps his #1 slot, then we have a quality standby. Win win would you agree?
I know Joe is a fans favourite, but we are looking to improve all over. That doesn't make me or others Joe haters, it just means we want to see improvement across the piste
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