Marc-Andre ter Stegen

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Tarzan41 said:
Have you heard anything about our new manager? There is no way he will sacrifice his principles and way of playing.
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Who knows exactly what will happen? There's a Bayern fan on here who said that he went there trying to play exactly the way he did at Barca but quite quickly realised that wouldn't work so did actually make a lot of adaptations to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal. Now clearly he is unlikely to endorse hoofing the ball up the pitch every time it goes back to the keeper but to suggest that he is as rigid as some people are making out probably does Pep a disservice.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Who knows exactly what will happen? There's a Bayern fan on here who said that he went there trying to play exactly the way he did at Barca but quite quickly realised that wouldn't work so did actually make a lot of adaptations to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal. Now clearly he is unlikely to endorse hoofing the ball up the pitch every time it goes back to the keeper but to suggest that he is as rigid as some people are making out probably does Pep a disservice.
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He encountered the same problem his first year in Bayern like he is now with us. There were some players that didn't fit with his philosophy. It wasn't until the 2nd or 3rd year that he finally has the players that he needs and have the team play completely in his style. I'm quite sure nobody here wants us to go through that again, including Pep. It's even worse for us since he inherited a treble-winning team in Bayern, not the case with our team. Which is why we need to move as fast as possible and not waste any more time.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Who knows exactly what will happen? There's a Bayern fan on here who said that he went there trying to play exactly the way he did at Barca but quite quickly realised that wouldn't work so did actually make a lot of adaptations to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal. Now clearly he is unlikely to endorse hoofing the ball up the pitch every time it goes back to the keeper but to suggest that he is as rigid as some people are making out probably does Pep a disservice.
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The thing is he changed the style without changing any of his principles. He made small adjustments in how quickly they moved the ball from the back, and he focused on the wings because thats where his best players were, and he made alterations to the fullbacks because the Bundesliga is dominated by counter-attacking teams.

But he didn't change his core principles, and several of those are dependent on the keeper being quick out of his box and good enough with his feet to take part in the build up.
 
domalino said:
The thing is he changed the style without changing any of his principles. He made small adjustments in how quickly they moved the ball from the back, and he focused on the wings because thats where his best players were, and he made alterations to the fullbacks because the Bundesliga is dominated by counter-attacking teams.

But he didn't change his core principles, and several of those are dependent on the keeper being quick out of his box and good enough with his feet to take part in the build up.
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I imagine City will be neither Bayern nor Barca & something different again, adjusted for the Premier League, but the basic thinga are not going to change, especially not for one player, unless we sign Messi.
 
domalino said:
The thing is he changed the style without changing any of his principles. He made small adjustments in how quickly they moved the ball from the back, and he focused on the wings because thats where his best players were, and he made alterations to the fullbacks because the Bundesliga is dominated by counter-attacking teams.

But he didn't change his core principles, and several of those are dependent on the keeper being quick out of his box and good enough with his feet to take part in the build up.
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I'm not going to argue with you, I don't know anywhere near enough about it. But in the interests of pedantry "he didn't change his core principles" just sounds like a sound bite that doesn't really mean very much to me. What are his core principles and what are his non core principles? Didn't he go from playing tiki taka football at Barca to launching fairly regular long balls at Bayern? That to me sounds like a change in a core value. Again, I am not suggesting for one minute that he will be happy to see the keeper hoofing it up relentlessly, that's not going to happen, but who knows exactly what style he will have us playing? German football is different from Spanish football and he made changes. English football is definitely a different beast so who knows how he will tackle it once he gets to grips with it? I think that Bayern fan on here had it right the other day, too many people have read Pep Confidential and think they know everything. I'm not necessarily aiming that at you by the way.
 
If I was Pep I'd consider these 3 "facts"
1. Any change introduces a risk of undesired consequences.
2. Large undesired consequences generally end up causing emotional stress.
3. People forget their lofty ideals and sober promises when emotionally stressed.

Pep plans to transform us over 3 years max. Doing that takes time and things will not always go right. The first few months is the time that he'll be forgiven the most if it does go wrong. Maybe the only window of opportunity regarding fans in the stands.

So IMO he should make the most high risk changes asap. Waiting only brings its own risks of "megaflapping". So imo he shouldn't compromise on the defensive side even if it is awful to watch and we loss the first 6 games.

And if he believes Hart needs replacing now then he has to push for that as hard as he can.

After Christmas or next year is when he can start to compromise if things really are going atrocious.
 
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TonyM said:
If I was Pep I'd consider these 3 "facts"
1. Any change introduced a risk of undesired consequences.
2. Large undesired consequences generally end up causing emotional stress.
3. People forget their lofty ideals and sober promised when emotionally stressed.

Pep plans to transform us over 3 years max. Doing that takes time and things will not always go right. The first few months is the time that he'll be forgiven the most if it does go wrong. Maybe the only window of opportunity regarding fans in the stands.

So IMO he should make the most high risk changes asap. Waiting only brings its own risks of "megaflapping". So imo he shouldn't compromise on the defensive side even if it is awful to watch and we loss the first 6 games.

And if he believes Hart needs replacing now then he has to push for that as hard as he can.

After Christmas or next year is when he can start to compromise if things really are going atrocious.
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I assume if he can get ter Stegen (or maybe Bravo) in this window then he will do it but the reality is it's going to be tough to get either of them particularly ter Stegen. Then he is faced with the reality that there aren't many very good keepers around who are great with their feet otherwise everyone would have one and I like to think he isn't going to put a poor keeper in just because they can pass. So there's every chance Joe will get a crack at things under Pep and if it becomes obvious that he can't cope with what Pep is asking of him then I think many fans will be much more open to moving him on than they would be at the moment, when to all intents and purposes, Joe hasn't let anyone down and hasn't been given a chance to prove himself.
 
GeorgeHeslop'sTackle. said:
We were never going to shift two thirds of this current squad in one transfer window, and It's very difficult to teach old dogs new tricks.

Like it or not, Pep's preferred way of playing isn't going to suit a lot of the older players we currently have, on our books.

would it not therefore, be more preferable, until such time as that situation changes, to find a method of playing that suits the players we have, rather than forcing them to play in a system that, the majority of them are clearly, in my view, still very uneasy with.
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Like jogging around the pitch in a half arsed manner with Pizza on their mind? Anybody who knows anything about change management will tell you that hard decisions have to be made and straight away. Of course you have to motivate your staff and assist them along the way but some sort of half way house is a recipe for another year of stagnation and decline. This is a new era the players both young and old must adapt quickly or they will be on their way.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I assume if he can get ter Stegen (or maybe Bravo) in this window then he will do it but the reality is it's going to be tough to get either of them particularly ter Stegen. Then he is faced with the reality that there aren't many very good keepers around who are great with their feet otherwise everyone would have one and I like to think he isn't going to put a poor keeper in just because they can pass. So there's every chance Joe will get a crack at things under Pep and if it becomes obvious that he can't cope with what Pep is asking of him then I think many fans will be much more open to moving him on than they would be at the moment, when to all intents and purposes, Joe hasn't let anyone down and hasn't been given a chance to prove himself.
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Or the demand hasn't been there, particularly in the UK as our keepers are what I would consider "traditional" in their approach.
 
Father Paul said:
Like jogging around the pitch in a half arsed manner with Pizza on their mind? Anybody who knows anything about change management will tell you that hard decisions have to be made and straight away. Of course you have to motivate your staff and assist them along the way but some sort of half way house is a recipe for another year of stagnation and decline. This is a new era the players both young and old must adapt quickly or they will be on their way.
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Agree. If he starts softly softly, he will have a much tougher time downstream
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I assume if he can get ter Stegen (or maybe Bravo) in this window then he will do it but the reality is it's going to be tough to get either of them particularly ter Stegen. Then he is faced with the reality that there aren't many very good keepers around who are great with their feet otherwise everyone would have one and I like to think he isn't going to put a poor keeper in just because they can pass. So there's every chance Joe will get a crack at things under Pep and if it becomes obvious that he can't cope with what Pep is asking of him then I think many fans will be much more open to moving him on than they would be at the moment, when to all intents and purposes, Joe hasn't let anyone down and hasn't been given a chance to prove himself.
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I heard somewhere that ter Stegen got injured yesterday and will be out for a few months. Any truth in that?
 
Lancet Fluke said:
What are his core principles and what are his non core principles? Didn't he go from playing tiki taka football at Barca to launching fairly regular long balls at Bayern? That to me sounds like a change in a core value. Again, I am not suggesting for one minute that he will be happy to see the keeper hoofing it up relentlessly, that's not going to happen, but who knows exactly what style he will have us playing? German football is different from Spanish football and he made changes. English football is definitely a different beast so who knows how he will tackle it once he gets to grips with it? I think that Bayern fan on here had it right the other day, too many people have read Pep Confidential and think they know everything. I'm not necessarily aiming that at you by the way.
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The difference are the players he had at Bayern and at Barcelona. At Bayern you have Müller and Lewy as targets for long balls - or the wingers - at Barcelona that balls would have ended at the opponent. As said before - in the first year in a midfield with Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Lahm he tried to go the Baycelona way. In that year he tried to get Bayern away from the focus on the wing (where Bayern has its strengths) and we played a lot through the middle. With Alonso - Thiago injured, Kroos gone, Schweinsteiger injured - in the second year Bayern got again the wing focus.
 
mavsmcfc said:
He encountered the same problem his first year in Bayern like he is now with us. There were some players that didn't fit with his philosophy. It wasn't until the 2nd or 3rd year that he finally has the players that he needs and have the team play completely in his style. I'm quite sure nobody here wants us to go through that again, including Pep. It's even worse for us since he inherited a treble-winning team in Bayern, not the case with our team. Which is why we need to move as fast as possible and not waste any more time.
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That was not it. He had the players at Bayern available - bar a Messi that can dribble through tight defenses. And that makes it difficult - Barcelona in Pep's years lived a lot of Messi...
Kroos and Schweinsteiger on the 8 never were the dynamic beasts - Iniesta and Xavi at Barcelona weren't either. Pep did not like Mandzukic and his style a lot - but in a lot of matches despite Pep's aim with short passing etc. it was crosses and Mandzu who won the match.

We are talking on a high level here - Bayern was winning the matches and especially in midfield was capable to keep the ball and keep possession.
 
Maldeika said:
That was not it. He had the players at Bayern available - bar a Messi that can dribble through tight defenses. And that makes it difficult - Barcelona in Pep's years lived a lot of Messi...
Kroos and Schweinsteiger on the 8 never were the dynamic beasts - Iniesta and Xavi at Barcelona weren't either. Pep did not like Mandzukic and his style a lot - but in a lot of matches despite Pep's aim with short passing etc. it was crosses and Mandzu who won the match.

We are talking on a high level here - Bayern was winning the matches and especially in midfield was capable to keep the ball and keep possession.
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If I remember correctly Vidal wasn't exactly his type of purchase either?
 
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