Larry Stranger
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Anyone watch Willy give away "simple" passes against Dortmund in that friendly? Almost lead to a few simple goals.
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Marc-Andre ter Stegen
- Thread starter FantasyIreland
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mosssideblue
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Couldn't agree more. People are making out like Pep requires his keeper to be some sort of Pirlo.
Hart has perhaps struggled with distribution as what Pep asks isn't common or for that matter ever been seen in the Premier League.
Offer him three options everytime he gets the ball and he's more than good enough with his feet.
If Pep builds Joe's confidence in himself and in his team mates playing out from the back will be fairly simple.
Where he may struggle, if Pep wants him to play so far off his line like Neuer. That's more about reading the game.
Direct football in England is far more common than in Spain or Germany and I think even Neuer would get caught out in England.
I think a solid keeper who knows the league and physicality of the league will win you(lose you less) points than a continental keeper.
Pep's no fool, he won't want Dave Bessant but I doubt he'd want Valderama either.
For me, with a little coaching and confidence from his manager Hart will be just fine.
What do you mean by this?
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
and?Anyone watch Willy give away "simple" passes against Dortmund in that friendly? Almost lead to a few simple goals.
What do you mean by this?
Excatly what it says. But the following line is as important. Pep will introduce a style of football uncommon or even unseen before in the PL. The post as a whole suggests that Hart possibly has looked poor with his distribution in the past due to not being offered the outlets Pep's system will offer him.
It's all opinions but I'm amazed that anyone who's watched Hart over the last few years thinks he's comfortable on the ball and blames "lack of options" for his poor distribution.
I guess this will be cleared up one way or another soon enough.
I guess this will be cleared up one way or another soon enough.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
It's all opinions but I'm amazed that anyone who's watched Hart over the last few years thinks he's comfortable on the ball and blames "lack of options" for his poor distribution.
I guess this will be cleared up one way or another soon enough.
I think 'soon enough' is right, as the question is, what would happen if Pep found he couldn't do it ?
I don't think it would work. So if Joe is in in goal come Sept, imo, it's because he's got it. I can't see Pep having a full season of a keeper that can't actually play the way he wants.
I would imagine we'll see a keeper come in very soon if he thinks Joe is going to struggle.
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
Excatly what it says. But the following line is as important. Pep will introduce a style of football uncommon or even unseen before in the PL. The post as a whole suggests that Hart possibly has looked poor with his distribution in the past due to not being offered the outlets Pep's system will offer him.
Pep will not have players waiting in row D I can assure you.
Come on, are you really saying Joe has good distribution today?
He did fine in Germany because their league is basically the AMG version of the SPL and he was in charge of the biggest team by 10 fold.
The slow build up play is one of the aspects I'm worried about tbh, we've struggled against teams who have organised against us on mass to defend in the past. Without the invention of merlin we struggle to find a way through.
If Aguero wanted to play in net I'd let that lad, he's Aguero ffs.
Iv never once stated anyone player or manager is bigger than the club I love, my issue is with 'you lots' wielding the axe on one of our players declaring him surplus before a ball has been kicked in anger.
Yeah I'm sure Guardiola has never experienced teams defending against him en mass before. He'll be completely stumped by it.
It's all opinions but I'm amazed that anyone who's watched Hart over the last few years thinks he's comfortable on the ball and blames "lack of options" for his poor distribution.
I guess this will be cleared up one way or another soon enough.
Can't argue with that. All I'd say, watch the last 20 minutes of the QPR title win game. Hart is basically playing centre back, bringing balls down on his chest, drilling accurate aggresive forwards passes. I agree it's rarely been seen.
The other part of my post, I don't think he'll need to be that comfortable on the ball to play a Pep system. I think thing will be getting rid of the Englishness is Hart. Anyone can pass it 15 yards. The ability to play it to the edge of the box won't be the issue. Having the nerve/confidence to do so is a different matter.
I'm not saying I was a mint footballer, but I was proffesional coached and played at a decent standard. I was always taught never to give the ball to someone with a "man on". The new England manager has 4 key requirements to his play. One is not to gamble with possession in your own half.
My guess the hardest thing will be that Hart will have to forget all he's been taught throughout his youth.
For me all PL keepers in today's game can accurately pass it 10,15,20 yards, have they got the confidence?
With Joe, time will tell.
Pep will not have players waiting in row D I can assure you.
Come on, are you really saying Joe has good distribution today?
I really don't follow.
Pep will have his centre halves split and offer an option both side. His holding midfielder will also drop in and offer himself.
That has been evident already.
Where did I say Hart has good distribution? I said he has the ability to play 10-15 yard balls with accuracy.
I believe Pep will give him the opportuntity and confidence to show this.
The first line of my post suggests Pep isn't looking for Pirlo level passing.
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
Fair comments. I was alluding that Joe's distribution has been poor. Hopefully as you say, with better options he can improveI really don't follow.
Pep will have his centre halves split and offer an option both side. His holding midfielder will also drop in and offer himself.
That has been evident already.
Where did I say Hart has good distribution? I said he has the ability to play 10-15 yard balls with accuracy.
I believe Pep will give him the opportuntity and confidence to show this.
The first line of my post suggests Pep isn't looking for Pirlo level passing.
I think the QPR example is perfect for the context we're talking about. I read earlier in the thread that somebody who watched him train believed he'd be good enough to play outfield because he could do keepy ups and spray the ball all over the pitch. The important factor that's missing on that is training and match day are worlds apart. Many a would be great footballer can produce magic on the training ground yet fail to replicate it on a match day. The pressures are so much more intense and what you might confidently do without a second thought behind closed doors is an altogether different prospect in front of 50,000 people. That last 20 minutes you talk about was perfect for Joe because QPR were intent on holding on and nothing more - it was basically an attack against defence training drill and when afforded time and space on the ball Joe showed that he's capable.Can't argue with that. All I'd say, watch the last 20 minutes of the QPR title win game. Hart is basically playing centre back, bringing balls down on his chest, drilling accurate aggresive forwards passes. I agree it's rarely been seen.
The other part of my post, I don't think he'll need to be that comfortable on the ball to play a Pep system. I think thing will be getting rid of the Englishness is Hart. Anyone can pass it 15 yards. The ability to play it to the edge of the box won't be the issue. Having the nerve/confidence to do so is a different matter.
I'm not saying I was a mint footballer, but I was proffesional coached and played at a decent standard. I was always taught never to give the ball to someone with a "man on". The new England manager has 4 key requirements to his play. One is not to gamble with possession in your own half.
My guess the hardest thing will be that Hart will have to forget all he's been taught throughout his youth.
For me all PL keepers in today's game can accurately pass it 10,15,20 yards, have they got the confidence?
With Joe, time will tell.
Your last paragraph pretty much sums up what the problem will be. Passing it 20 yards with confidence. It's something I've struggled to see from him on a regular basis. The positive is I'm sure Peps training drills are helping Joe to deal with this and like Nev said, if he's playing regular for us from the start of the season it's because we have faith in him delivering...or we couldn't get a new keeper.. Haha!
I think the QPR example is perfect for the context we're talking about. I read earlier in the thread that somebody who watched him train believed he'd be good enough to play outfield because he could do keepy ups and spray the ball all over the pitch. The important factor that's missing on that is training and match day are worlds apart. Many a would be great footballer can produce magic on the training ground yet fail to replicate it on a match day. The pressures are so much more intense and what you might confidently do without a second thought behind closed doors is an altogether different prospect in front of 50,000 people. That last 20 minutes you talk about was perfect for Joe because QPR were intent on holding on and nothing more - it was basically an attack against defence training drill and when afforded time and space on the ball Joe showed that he's capable.
Your last paragraph pretty much sums up what the problem will be. Passing it 20 yards with confidence. It's something I've struggled to see from him on a regular basis. The positive is I'm sure Peps training drills are helping Joe to deal with this and like Nev said, if he's playing regular for us from the start of the season it's because we have faith in him delivering...or we couldn't get a new keeper.. Haha!
That's my point, the ability is there. I hope Pep can instil the confidence required. I agree it's more mental than anything else.
Fair comments. I was alluding that Joe's distribution has been poor. Hopefully as you say, with better options he can improve
I agree, his distribution can be infuriating. It is there though. See BMG away, saves a Pen and in the same passage of play put Aguero clean through.
The ability is there, can Pep bring it out of him, can we as a fan base allow the occassional fuck up? I hope so. If not, new keeper will be needed sentiment or not.
Oh, it's definitely more of a mental problem than ability.That's my point, the ability is there. I hope Pep can instil the confidence required. I agree it's more mental than anything else.
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
I agree, his distribution can be infuriating. It is there though. See BMG away, saves a Pen and in the same passage of play put Aguero clean through.
The ability is there, can Pep bring it out of him, can we as a fan base allow the occassional fuck up? I hope so. If not, new keeper will be needed sentiment or not.
Blue Moon is unforgiving and a vehicle to vent but, I think as a fanbase we all acknowledge that these guys are human and mistakes will be made.
twoddlehopper
Well-Known Member
Lol. Yeah we all know his master plan to get round people defending on mass too, it's having a keeper with the touch of Zidane and the vision of Xavi obviously...;-)Yeah I'm sure Guardiola has never experienced teams defending against him en mass before. He'll be completely stumped by it.
It'd certainly help us in regards to getting up the pitch quicker rather than taking an age which we normally do, thus giving the opposition time to get back in numbers.Lol. Yeah we all know his master plan to get round people defending on mass too, it's having a keeper with the touch of Zidane and the vision of Xavi obviously...;-)
The whole keeper needs to be able to play thing is vastly over exaggerated on here. The keeper in Peps previous sides didn't have much more involvement in the game than keepers of other top teams. Valdes barely touched the ball at Barca, he just had to make himself available if it was required and play simple square passes and possibly create a triangle if the opposition is closing from the front. Neuer is a bit different because he loves to often needlessly charge out of his box aand involve himself in the game like no other keeper.
The keeper in Peps side simply needs to be comfortable on the ball which is more about confidence than anything else, and Joe has plenty of that (some would argue too much at times) he'll be playing 10 yard square passes most of the time with the odd chipped 20-30 yard pass. We've seen from training clips the keepers are now involved with the rest of the first teams rondo's at the start of training which is as tough as it'll get for whoever's in net. Some on here act like the keeper needs to have Silva's eye for a pass and execution to play in a Pep team. There's no top class keepers around that couldn't fit into Pep's system. It's all about making space and making yourself available, if Joe doesn't have simple passes that anybody can make on at all times then it's the defenders that aren't doing their jobs properly not the keeper.
I agree 100%
Apparently, we have now decided to not bring in a new keeper. I'm guessing Pep is really impressed with Joe. He is passionate and a really hard worker, I don't see why he wouldn't improve and fit Pep's system, like you sad he doesn't need Silva's eye for a pass.
Maybe we were in for another keeper to provide competition for Hart which I'm all for. He can either step up and prove his worth or lose his place. In that case I believe he would step up.
Due to a few mistakes, everyone is overlooking Hart. The problem is that when he makes a mistake it is big news but when other keepers make mistakes, nobody bats an eye. The point is all keepers make mistakes. Go to youtube and type in Buffon mistakes or Neuer mistakes and you will all see that these keepers are also human.
Hart is one of the top keepers in the world. He won the golden glove 3 years in a row playing under Mancini and has 4 in total (tied for most in history with Cech). He was one clean sheet away last season playing in a defense that was unorganized and kept changing with Kompany injured most of the season.
Hart has performed in big games and produced some of the best ever performances for a keeper in the CL.
Joe has also saved penalties from Messi, Zlatan, Lampard and Ronaldihno to name a few.
This season we will be defending as a team which will make Hart's job much easier. He will have a great season IMO.
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