Mario, time to say goodbye?

[Marvin]

That has always been the case of course...the madness comes as part of the package. But the price is getting higher, not lower, and therein lies the rub. And Tolm makes an extrememly valid point...his reputation now has upped that price even further.

I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.

With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...


;-)

The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.

Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.

Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.

Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.

Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.

He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.

The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.

They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.

Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.

Just a small point, he was a marked man in Italy too. That's down to racism which a lot of people aren't prepared to admit too

Mario has to beat his critics.

 

[Ticket For Schalke]

TBF theres only a few clubs out there who can afford him.

 

[FantasyIreland]

It would be a huge shame as he is truly a one off in many respects,however,i can't see him changing,its in his DNA,whenever he feels wronged or frustrated he will continue to behave in such a manner.

The fact every ref in the land is now also paying him special attention,almost waiting for the opportunity to book him along with opposition players using the situation to their advantage,means he can never be the player he wants to be as his game is now severely hampered and,as much as he causes alot of his own problems,he will also never get a fair break.

We need a player with far more reliability and consistency so for his own sake and ours he has to go.He's a marked man.......

 

[Anonymous]

But a longer term solution is needed, he shouldn't have to do this every game. This is the message my NLP Specialist, from above, would nail into his brain.

It's a cliche but the first step is admitting you have a problem... I don't see Mario agreeing to seeing any type of a specialist about his temper. I don't think the club can force him either.

How to get the best out of Balo is a question even Mou couldn't answer .... so for me Mancini's probably doing the best job any human could do. The rest is down to the lad himself...

 

[Aguero_Element]

NOWAY

this thread is what the half hearted united fan would see and go "hey, mabye all the papers are right and city are 'wrong' and i am, without really doing much mental thinking, am 'right'....LUCKY ME."

 

[OB1]

Haven't read the whole thread, in fact I've only read the first and last pages but my two penneth;

1- His age. Whatever anyone says he can and will learn to deal with things. Imo, despite Sunday, this season has already been a huge improvement. He was sent off wrongly against Liverpool and may be suspended wrongly here too. I understand this is part of the problem but he has been only partly to blame for the games he has and will miss. If he improves as much next year as he has next he'll be well on the way to behaving more like a normal player.

2- His improvement on the field and his match winning ability. He has turned into a real important player for us to the point that when he doesn't start we are considered to be under strength. That's for a guy who is 21! I understand again that part of the problem is that he will miss too many games if always suspended but he is worth the risk, for now, based on what he has done on the pitch this season.

3- Mancini. The best thing about this is that Mancini as a player was as close to Balotelli as anyone has been over the past couple of decades. At the moment Mancini feels like the refs and the FA are against City and especially Balotelli but what would be best for everyone is if Mancini forgets all that and concentrates on looking after Mario. He more than anyone needs to get into the mind of the man because if he can't, no-one will. I would give it another season at least to see if Mancini can handle him even better than he already has.

4- The FA and refs. They cannot be allowed to dictate who we sign and sell. The comments by Poll absolutely disgusted me and confirmed all my fears about referee's. The FA are completely and utterly lacking in any kind of continuity and fairness. We should be creating a siege mentality against them and let them not that, whilst Balotelli is far from innocent, we will not allow there to be one rule for one and one for another. It is unacceptable that a club like ours would consider selling one of their best players because he isn't treated fairly. Would Fergie have sold Cantona?

Excellent post. I can see both sides of the Balo argument but I tend to fall more on the side of what you've posted above. The only caveat being that I don't like people holding up the likes of Cuntona and Rooney as examples. I don't want that kind of liability in our dressing room. Mario has changed for the better and his attitude has improved. In fact, prior to his injury I was beginning to think he'd really turned a corner.

Sometimes I think that when he's not played for a while, he's so frustrated that he's not played that he brings this extra aggression out onto the pitch when he does finally get on which is unnecessary.

You can sign me up on most of the above. Not sure if Mario has extra aggression after a period out but he does get frustrated easily. The suggestion by another poster that City spend money on some sort of mental training / analysis must have merit but it needs Mario to be a willing participant.

 

[mcfcphil]

Question for you - do you think the owners and Mancini will be happy about this latest situation?

What worries me is given how well connected you are, you are just trying to position the idea that Mario will be moved on. I hope not.

City will succeed with or without Mario; but I hope he will stay and reading this thread, so do the majority.

Nothing need be read into it, bud. Seriously, it's just another blue asking a question.

I have the courage of my convictions to stand by my argument. At what point does either Mario or City think they can't win?

His agent has spouted today about the attitudes in England, I certainly think it perhaps gives more of an insight as to an ongoing mindset?

What the agent said is spot on and will help the situation. The premier league can’t afford to lose players of the ability and intrigue of balotelli - we should make everyone aware that is the risk of continually treating him differently to other players.

 

[bluwes]

wtf is this thread about, basically an over reaction from one incident that has happened, if the stamp hadnt have happened this thread wouldnt exist, get behind the player, hes young and is brilliant

I have not read every post , so this may have already been suggested, are we being sounded out for our thoughts here on what th efans reaction would be if we moved him out.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to pick up on one point, in the form of a question:

Are you still the same type of person you were at 21 (apologies Billy as I assume you are more my age than a young 'un!)?

If you aren't, is it because you had an epiphany or did you just 'naturally' grow up?

Good question mate.... I guess I was a little like Mario at his age.... hot headed, arrogant, and felt that because I was 'successful' my shit didn't stink. It took me a long time to grow up and lose a lot of those traits. However the one thing I will say is that I was never derelict in my professional duties. I never cost anyone I worked for money, time, or caused them undue problems due to my attitude.

The reason I used the term "epiphany" is because Mario needs a reality check. He couldn't get in the team at the start of the season due to his shitty training attitude and his performance against the LA Galaxy. He fought his way back to the number 1 striker's spot. And now he's just pissed all over it all over again. I'm convinced he'll have an epiphany when it comes to his responsibilities on the field.

Fair play. The kid is obviously a complex character but once we find the right buttons to press he has the potential to become one of the best we've ever seen in Blue.

That's why I reckon it would be madness to consider selling him now. More time required to mould him into the 'right' kind of player/person.

The biggest plus point we have is that he seems to respect, even admire Mancini in the main which could be half the battle won.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

But a longer term solution is needed, he shouldn't have to do this every game. This is the message my NLP Specialist, from above, would nail into his brain.

It's a cliche but the first step is admitting you have a problem... I don't see Mario agreeing to seeing any type of a specialist about his temper. I don't think the club can force him either.

How to get the best out of Balo is a question even Mou couldn't answer .... so for me Mancini's probably doing the best job any human could do. The rest is down to the lad himself...

I think he would. His disciplinary record speaks for itself. And it's the kind of thing that any clever (and by clever I mean manipulative) people manager could "sell" to him.

Mourinho claimed he was unmanageable. I hope he was wrong.

 

[Blumers Bloomers]

Do you think we'd even be talking about Mario if Defoe had scored that chance?

Would have been buried in the back pages whilst we all hail Twitcher and his league title contenders

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.

With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...


;-)

The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.

Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.

Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.

Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.

Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.

He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.

The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.

They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.

Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.

Just a small point, he was a marked man in Italy too. That's down to racism which a lot of people aren't prepared to admit too

Mario has to beat his critics.

But I do actually believe Mario is also suffering a form of racism over here, unfortunately.

He might not be having bananas thrown at him or monkey chanting from the stands, but there is a 'Johnny Foreigner' mentality which also puts him at a major disadvantage.

Coupled with his own personality and shortcomings, he has a ready-made target on his back.

Our owners have also experienced this prejudice.

It's not about beating his critics, racists, it's about beating the system.

And very few people do that.

 

[Chris in London]

That has always been the case of course...the madness comes as part of the package. But the price is getting higher, not lower, and therein lies the rub. And Tolm makes an extrememly valid point...his reputation now has upped that price even further.

I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.

With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...


;-)

The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.

Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.

Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.

Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.

Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.

He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.

The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.

They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.

Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.

Agree entirely with that. Also, acknowledge that your question is a hard one that needs asking (though (a) your views perhaps are a little too clear in the OP for it to be truly a devil's advocate thread, and (b) the devil's actual advocate is busy this week in Southwark Crown Court.)

You may be right that the Parker incident will mean ref.s are more likely to send him off first and ask questions later. You may be right, we both hope you aren't, that his reputation will precede him and really hurt us in a very big game.

First, I think this can be managed. At least in part. My guess is that Mancini had a shrewd idea what Stoke would do to Mario during the Final and warned him specifically beforehand that under no circumstances, whatever the provocation, could he afford to lose his cool. Wouldn't be surprised if something very similar happened before the semi. Well, it worked. Twice. What we now need Mario to understand is that we have 13 FA cup finals left between now and the end of the season (assuming he isn't available for the next few games.)

Second, he really does have game changing ability which, for all the baggage that comes with it, few individuals possess.

Third, when you have a player as talented as Mario, as loved by the fans as Mario, we go the extra mile to keep him: if he wasn't as good, if he hadn't showed already he could rise to the big occasion (Wembley being our biggest occasion in 30 years) or if we didn't love him as much as we do, maybe I would feel differently.

But Mario is special. We have taken to him, we have invested - emotionally and financially - in him, I think we make a huge mistake by baling out now.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

Tolmie any idea how our owners see all the negative press surrounding our club or their club?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.

With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...


;-)

The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.

Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.

Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.

Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.

Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.

He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.

The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.

They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.

Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.

Agree entirely with that. Also, acknowledge that your question is a hard one that needs asking (though (a) your views perhaps are a little too clear in the OP for it to be truly a devil's advocate thread, and (b) the devil's actual advocate is busy this week in Southwark Crown Court.)

You may be right that the Parker incident will mean ref.s are more likely to send him off first and ask questions later. You may be right, we both hope you aren't, that his reputation will precede him and really hurt us in a very big game.

First, I think this can be managed. At least in part. My guess is that Mancini had a shrewd idea what Stoke would do to Mario during the Final and warned him specifically beforehand that under no circumstances, whatever the provocation, could he afford to lose his cool. Wouldn't be surprised if something very similar happened before the semi. Well, it worked. Twice. What we now need Mario to understand is that we have 13 FA cup finals left between now and the end of the season (assuming he isn't available for the next few games.)

Second, he really does have game changing ability which, for all the baggage that comes with it, few individuals possess.

Third, when you have a player as talented as Mario, as loved by the fans as Mario, we go the extra mile to keep him: if he wasn't as good, if he hadn't showed already he could rise to the big occasion (Wembley being our biggest occasion in 30 years) or if we didn't love him as much as we do, maybe I would feel differently.

But Mario is special. We have taken to him, we have invested - emotionally and financially - in him, I think we make a huge mistake by baling out now.

It's a good post. As I said earlier I was told Mancini told him that he would sub him in the final if he put a foot wrong.

I'm sure you've watched it several times like me. There's a point in the second half he get a hard boot right on the ankle. You can see it hurts him from his face. But he gets up and pretends to laugh at the lad who did it.

So he can keep a lid on it.

 

[inbetween]

I'd take a swap for Cavani but i have to say i'd miss Mario too much, he is not only a top player but also a great character. Not many players can come on, get booked, nearly get sent off and then win the game in the dying seconds. That's called entertainment and i wouldn't want it any other way.

TBH he isn't all that bad, we know about his off field antics but that is irrelevant. He showed us in the 6-1 what he can really do and he didn't cause any problems. What happened against Tottenham i don't believe for a second he acted with intent but i don't think he was totally innocent either. Who knows.

Every club has that player who you either love or hate, United had Cantona we have Mario. I for one as a fan would miss him and wouldn't like him to go somewhere else where he can not only hurt us but give them his entertaining value.

Lets not forget he is only 21, we have to have faith that he will grow as a footballer rather than other aspects.

 

[Jumanji]

Haven't read the whole thread, in fact I've only read the first and last pages but my two penneth;

1- His age. Whatever anyone says he can and will learn to deal with things. Imo, despite Sunday, this season has already been a huge improvement. He was sent off wrongly against Liverpool and may be suspended wrongly here too. I understand this is part of the problem but he has been only partly to blame for the games he has and will miss. If he improves as much next year as he has next he'll be well on the way to behaving more like a normal player.

2- His improvement on the field and his match winning ability. He has turned into a real important player for us to the point that when he doesn't start we are considered to be under strength. That's for a guy who is 21! I understand again that part of the problem is that he will miss too many games if always suspended but he is worth the risk, for now, based on what he has done on the pitch this season.

3- Mancini. The best thing about this is that Mancini as a player was as close to Balotelli as anyone has been over the past couple of decades. At the moment Mancini feels like the refs and the FA are against City and especially Balotelli but what would be best for everyone is if Mancini forgets all that and concentrates on looking after Mario. He more than anyone needs to get into the mind of the man because if he can't, no-one will. I would give it another season at least to see if Mancini can handle him even better than he already has.

4- The FA and refs. They cannot be allowed to dictate who we sign and sell. The comments by Poll absolutely disgusted me and confirmed all my fears about referee's. The FA are completely and utterly lacking in any kind of continuity and fairness. We should be creating a siege mentality against them and let them not that, whilst Balotelli is far from innocent, we will not allow there to be one rule for one and one for another. It is unacceptable that a club like ours would consider selling one of their best players because he isn't treated fairly. Would Fergie have sold Cantona?

Excellent post that.

Everyone should read it.

 

[Danamy]

The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.

Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.

Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.

Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.

Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.

He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.

The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.

They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.

Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.

Just a small point, he was a marked man in Italy too. That's down to racism which a lot of people aren't prepared to admit too

Mario has to beat his critics.

But I do actually believe Mario is also suffering a form of racism over here, unfortunately.

He might not be having bananas thrown at him or monkey chanting from the stands, but there is a 'Johnny Foreigner' mentality which also puts him at a major disadvantage.

Coupled with his own personality and shortcomings, he has a ready-made target on his back.

Our owners have also experienced this prejudice.

It's not about beating his critics, racists, it's about beating the system.

And very few people do that.

Only one person has put that target on his back and only one person that can take it off.

He's the luckiest man alive with the talent he possesses and he's got the world at his feet, i just fear it's all going to pass him by.............

 

[Josh Blue]

I love Mario and I really think he is going to turn into one of the worlds greats, he is a big part of the team and the team spirit and I like the think he loves the fans aswell.

I would be gutted if he ever left.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Tolmie any idea how our owners see all the negative press surrounding our club or their club?

It doesn't need me to tell you that the club are continually fighting fires and trying to win friends.

We are a club that are perhaps too concerned about how others perceive us and get burned as a result.

Whether it be FFPR or the wider media.

I respect the owners and their reputations, but there comes a point where you want to see them really taking advantage of their money and connections.

It's not about winning friends for me, you can buy them over a longer period of time.

It's about winning trophies and not letting others take liberties during the interim.