bluejon
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest that was secondary though, and the kurds got royally fucked over by Bush when he told them to rise up and we'll support you, and then the US promptly fucked off and didn't. The kurds got royally fucked over.
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Mass starvation in Afghanistan
- Thread starter Berts Neck
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Berts Neck
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I can not answer that..I can only look at recent historical efforts by the West ,and they have of late been so wrong which saddens me.. that is the point I tried to make. The press will soon be full of anti Russian comments regards the Ukraine. But The US involvement in Nicaragua,Guatemala, Cuba and Vietnam are there for all to see. The Uighur muslims in China is on a par with Nazi atrocities. Concentration camps, and being forced to change their religion. How often do we read about that in the press ?? I can have an opinion about Western democracy but do not purport to having a solution. It s a forum, not a political vote campaign.so whats a better system than western democracy?
The starvation isn’t due to lack of food, it’s a mass suicide attempt.No wonder people were fleeing
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
It's very easy to blame the USA, and the USA alone, for the problems in that area. They did indeed take their usual, facile 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' view of the Afghan resistance to the Russian invasion of the country, arming the Mujihadeen while completely failing to recognise or understand the ideology behind Islamic militancy.Wow.
This is why it's problematic to rely on MSM as a narrative. You need to remember what came before '9/11', who armed whom and taught them skills to fight insurgent wars against 'enemies'.
I won't write more cos you're not interested.
But Afghanistan was a problem long before the Soviet invasion, as we found out in the mid 19th century. Almost constant civil wars and inter-necine fighting have taken place there since the mid 18th century. As @ZenHalfTimeCrock says in his post, there are many factors that led to the current instability. The rise of militant Islam pre-dated 9/11 (probably starting in the 1920's) and the subsequent actions that resulted from that. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan probably came at the perfect time for the Jihadi movement, as it gave them a proper battleground for the first time.
Pakistan effectively created the Taliban (although there are at least two or three distinct groupings), with significant input from Saudi Arabia and Iran. Without Pakistan's support, the Taliban could simply not have survived.
Afghanistan isn't suffering from a natural disaster, like drought or flooding, currently, which is causing the reported mass starvation. If the Taliban (or anyone else) wants power, then that's fine but they have to exercise it responsibly, for the good of the people they represent and show that they're capable of running an economy and all the institutions that a modern country needs.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
We have ot be realistic and understand that, for many countries, it's not always the best system.so whats a better system than western democracy?
We have ot be realistic and understand that, for many countries, it's not always the best system.
Its probably the best system but you have to arrive at it organically.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
It's very easy to blame the USA, and the USA alone, for the problems in that area. They did indeed take their usual, facile 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' view of the Afghan resistance to the Russian invasion of the country, arming the Mujihadeen while completely failing to recognise or understand the ideology behind Islamic militancy.
But Afghanistan was a problem long before the Soviet invasion, as we found out in the mid 19th century. Almost constant civil wars and inter-necine fighting have taken place there since the mid 18th century. As @ZenHalfTimeCrock says in his post, there are many factors that led to the current instability. The rise of militant Islam pre-dated 9/11 (probably starting in the 1920's) and the subsequent actions that resulted from that. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan probably came at the perfect time for the Jihadi movement, as it gave them a proper battleground for the first time.
Pakistan effectively created the Taliban (although there are at least two or three distinct groupings), with significant input from Saudi Arabia and Iran. Without Pakistan's support, the Taliban could simply not have survived.
Afghanistan isn't suffering from a natural disaster, like drought or flooding, currently, which is causing the reported mass starvation. If the Taliban (or anyone else) wants power, then that's fine but they have to exercise it responsibly, for the good of the people they represent and show that they're capable of running an economy and all the institutions that a modern country needs.
Whilst I understand all that from past knowledge, it doesn't explain why '9/11' happened, does it? It doesn't explain why the Bush regime got the Bin Laden family out of the US maybe a day or two before the strikes.
The ME conflicts have nothing to do with it. The Biden regime, though, has been happy to hit the region with sanctions they knew would create issues.
I find the US gov problematic in its attempt to claim to care for anyone else if it can't do better for its own people.
Mr Kobayashi
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Whilst I understand all that from past knowledge, it doesn't explain why '9/11' happened, does it? It doesn't explain why the Bush regime got the Bin Laden family out of the US maybe a day or two before the strikes.
Where is the evidence for this?
The flights took place eight days after 9/11 not before.
The Bin Laden family are establishment figures within Saudi Arabia, owners of a multinational construction conglomerate and among the richest non royals in the kingdom.
Osama was the black sheep of the family.
The Future’s Blue!
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PB puts across a good precis about the historical value and possible reasons for todays issues in Afghanistan. This is a long-standing issue but you seem not to debate the issues but cast blame?Whilst I understand all that from past knowledge, it doesn't explain why '9/11' happened, does it? It doesn't explain why the Bush regime got the Bin Laden family out of the US maybe a day or two before the strikes.
The ME conflicts have nothing to do with it. The Biden regime, though, has been happy to hit the region with sanctions they knew would create issues.
I find the US gov problematic in its attempt to claim to care for anyone else if it can't do better for its own people.
I, personally, cannot understand this as this is the last thing needed. Whether the wests stance is for political gain or for security reasons, it doesn’t really matter, people are going hungry.
Can the West trust the Taliban to put food in peoples mouths or have they already proved that they can’t be trusted?
There’s only one way to deal with this and that is getting supplies to the people via aid agencies, circumventing the powers that would use those funds for other means.
I can not answer that..I can only look at recent historical efforts by the West ,and they have of late been so wrong which saddens me.. that is the point I tried to make. The press will soon be full of anti Russian comments regards the Ukraine. But The US involvement in Nicaragua,Guatemala, Cuba and Vietnam are there for all to see. The Uighur muslims in China is on a par with Nazi atrocities. Concentration camps, and being forced to change their religion. How often do we read about that in the press ?? I can have an opinion about Western democracy but do not purport to having a solution. It s a forum, not a political vote campaign.
you definately can have an opinion about western democracy without having an alternative
however if its negative but does not include a suggestion on how it could be improved or an alternative then whats the point?