MCFC U-18's

WallyA said:
I agree Sancho was an extreme case, but I think Rony Lopes (whom I also mentioned) is also worth way more than when we sold him.
Denis Suarez could have excelled here as well and is worth easily 25m+. Trippier and Rabiot were also solid prospects we brought in. Diaz will also most likely be worth 50m+ (the fact that we got 15m was not bad tbf).

Sure it makes money, but you have to factor in the cost to run the academy (all the wages and such), the cost of the facility itself, the loss assets from potential players, to see that its an inefficient business model that makes very little money for how much work is put into it.
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Sorry but you've been chatting total bollocks in the last few posts in a seemingly desperate attempt to prove an incorrect point.

Rony Lopes left us 5 years ago this summer so that the fact that he is worth more now, especially with the way the market has gone is meaningless.

Denis Suarez was homesick (and possibly tapped up) and went to Barcelona where he bounced about on various loans (and still is). That'll be 6 years this summer in his case since he left so again, he's worth more now you say?

Rabiot was only here for a few months (not even a full season) in 2008 for christ sake. I couldn't even tell you why he left but he'd have been about 13 at the time.

"Diaz will also most likely be worth 50m+", and he might end up not worth the £15mil we got. Could you share your crystal ball?

"Sancho... but he is now worth 100m easily", is he bollocks but even if true that doesn't mean we've "lost £90million" since he decided to leave.

"they will hardly get integrated and we will sell them to make 'profits' but the profit is completely destroyed by the players potential.", and if we don't sell them but they're still not good enough to get game time they'll be 'worth' even less and will leave us on a free anyway.
 
Centurions said:
Sorry but you've been chatting total bollocks in the last few posts in a seemingly desperate attempt to prove an incorrect point.

Rony Lopes left us 5 years ago this summer so that the fact that he is worth more now, especially with the way the market has gone is meaningless.

Denis Suarez was homesick (and possibly tapped up) and went to Barcelona where he bounced about on various loans (and still is). That'll be 6 years this summer in his case since he left so again, he's worth more now you say?

Rabiot was only here for a few months (not even a full season) in 2008 for christ sake. I couldn't even tell you why he left but he'd have been about 13 at the time.

"Diaz will also most likely be worth 50m+", and he might end up not worth the £15mil we got. Could you share your crystal ball?

"Sancho... but he is now worth 100m easily", is he bollocks but even if true that doesn't mean we've "lost £90million" since he decided to leave.

"they will hardly get integrated and we will sell them to make 'profits' but the profit is completely destroyed by the players potential.", and if we don't sell them but they're still not good enough to get game time they'll be 'worth' even less and will leave us on a free anyway.
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Most of what you said is nonsense so I won't bother to elaborate any further.
 
Centurions said:
I'm surprised given your previous posts you could actually use a word like 'elaborate' correctly so maybe it's best you don't reply.

BTW, do you still think Sancho is worth £100 million after he disappeared without trace last night?
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Sancho was the best player on the pitch in the first half. If you’re going to judge players value on one half of football then Sane would be worth about £100k based on his showing vs Everton last week.
 
Centurions said:
So you agree with the wally that Sancho is worth £100 million right now?
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Well he’s probably not worth it now, but I reckon Utd would pay it if it was the asking price this summer. Mangala wasn’t worth £42 million, Lukaku wasn’t worth £75 million and Coutinho wasn’t worth £142 million yet teams still paid those amounts.
 
Centurions said:
Sorry but you've been chatting total bollocks in the last few posts in a seemingly desperate attempt to prove an incorrect point.

Rony Lopes left us 5 years ago this summer so that the fact that he is worth more now, especially with the way the market has gone is meaningless.

Denis Suarez was homesick (and possibly tapped up) and went to Barcelona where he bounced about on various loans (and still is). That'll be 6 years this summer in his case since he left so again, he's worth more now you say?

Rabiot was only here for a few months (not even a full season) in 2008 for christ sake. I couldn't even tell you why he left but he'd have been about 13 at the time.

"Diaz will also most likely be worth 50m+", and he might end up not worth the £15mil we got. Could you share your crystal ball?

"Sancho... but he is now worth 100m easily", is he bollocks but even if true that doesn't mean we've "lost £90million" since he decided to leave.

"they will hardly get integrated and we will sell them to make 'profits' but the profit is completely destroyed by the players potential.", and if we don't sell them but they're still not good enough to get game time they'll be 'worth' even less and will leave us on a free anyway.
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I think Rabiot's problems relate to demands made by his mother/agent. I agree speculating on "ifs and buts" regarding young players is crystal ball gazing at best. Some like Rooney peak early and don't improve much while players like David Brooks & Trippier have taken a while to get to Premier League standard. I don't think our club would be at the level it now is without good off field management and trust that they will maximise the benefits of the academy but it will be rare for a teenager to break into a league topping team.
 
WallyA said:
I agree (partially) with one of your parts and completely disagree with the other:

1. Foden is an academy player, Muric is not, we got him when he was like 17 years old, he is also 20 years old now and not a teenager (I am being pedantic I know). And I agree in that I think it is best for these players to come when veterans retire and the players we bought take their place with youth taking the backup spot, so Foden will be much more involved when David retires. I am not unhappy with Foden's development, it's not as fast as people would like, but he is 18 and gets some minutes.

2. My main issue is with the so called 'function' of the academy to make the club money, you only have to look at Sancho to see that its very inefficient, people are happy we made 8m selling him, but he is now worth 100m easily. Now you can say City tried everything they can to keep him, that is correct, but he left because no pathways has been shown ever in the first place, hence we made 8m selling Sancho, then spent 60m on Mahrez and actually in this case the academy has failed miserably in making the club money.

In fact in just this one player (losing the atleast 90m in Sancho), wipes out years of academy profits from other player sales. There are other players too mind you who will also be worth way more than when we sold them; Rony Lopes, Angelino, Diaz and Matondo come to mind immediately.

Now to be fair to the club, if they can put in a buyback clause (Angelino, Matondo) then perhaps we won't lose so much if we bring the player back, but very often that has not been the case in most sales.

So basically, this is why I don't really care if we lose academy players, they will hardly get integrated and we will sell them to make 'profits' but the profit is completely destroyed by the players potential. /rant
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There's some strange logic going on with your maths here. The fact that you sell something for a profit but don't get as much as you expected doesn't make it a loss. I guarantee that Mansour and Khaldoun won't be losing a second's sleep over our academy player's selling cost vs first team player purchase costs. Your main issue of us failing miserably with the academy making money seems quite baseless with regard to the running of a football club. A football club is extremely unlikely to offload an academy player for a huge sum - what would be the point? If he was 'that good' he'd be in the first team squad. The vast majority of academy players never make it to the first team (worldwide) and the mere fact that our academy is self-sustaining is quite an achievement in itself.
 
steviemc said:
There's some strange logic going on with your maths here. The fact that you sell something for a profit but don't get as much as you expected doesn't make it a loss. I guarantee that Mansour and Khaldoun won't be losing a second's sleep over our academy player's selling cost vs first team player purchase costs. Your main issue of us failing miserably with the academy making money seems quite baseless with regard to the running of a football club. A football club is extremely unlikely to offload an academy player for a huge sum - what would be the point? If he was 'that good' he'd be in the first team squad. The vast majority of academy players never make it to the first team (worldwide) and the mere fact that our academy is self-sustaining is quite an achievement in itself.
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This is how the business world works I'm afraid in terms of what I meant 'loss'. Many times when a company fails to meet the profit expectations they were expected to get (their potential) they lose money (shares).

This is what I'm referring to in terms of the academy making money, it will make some profit in the purest sense of the word, but the fact that many of these players end up being 5-10x what their worth make it feel like a huge lost opportunity (just in a financial sense).

The academy purely being self-sustaining (probably not by much) is not really something to be proud of. They spend so much time, energy and money into the academy just for the some financial gain? The club is so rich that this is the biggest waste of resource for any investor trying to make money.

Instead if the plan was to also integrate academy players, then that would be great and relevant to the fans, but we don't do that so in the end its all a little useless.
 
WallyA said:
This is how the business world works I'm afraid in terms of what I meant 'loss'. Many times when a company fails to meet the profit expectations they were expected to get (their potential) they lose money (shares).

This is what I'm referring to in terms of the academy making money, it will make some profit in the purest sense of the word, but the fact that many of these players end up being 5-10x what their worth make it feel like a huge lost opportunity (just in a financial sense).

The academy purely being self-sustaining (probably not by much) is not really something to be proud of. They spend so much time, energy and money into the academy just for the some financial gain? The club is so rich that this is the biggest waste of resource for any investor trying to make money.

Instead if the plan was to also integrate academy players, then that would be great and relevant to the fans, but we don't do that so in the end its all a little useless.
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Well as Khaldoun says the clubs policy is to sell with buy backs and sell ons and he thinks it’s going well, he disagrees with you. So Khaldouns veiw or some bloke on the internet. Let me think
 
blueparrot said:
Well as Khaldoun says the clubs policy is to sell with buy backs and sell ons and he thinks it’s going well, he disagrees with you. So Khaldouns veiw or some bloke on the internet. Let me think
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He tells the people whatever he wants, financially it is not a sound investment and professionally we don't really profit much from it.

Khaldoon says alot of things that aren't true.
 
steviemc said:
There's some strange logic going on with your maths here. The fact that you sell something for a profit but don't get as much as you expected doesn't make it a loss. I guarantee that Mansour and Khaldoun won't be losing a second's sleep over our academy player's selling cost vs first team player purchase costs. Your main issue of us failing miserably with the academy making money seems quite baseless with regard to the running of a football club. A football club is extremely unlikely to offload an academy player for a huge sum - what would be the point? If he was 'that good' he'd be in the first team squad. The vast majority of academy players never make it to the first team (worldwide) and the mere fact that our academy is self-sustaining is quite an achievement in itself.
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I can understand this argument and @WallyA. I wonder though if we shouldn’t be smarter with loans. Why couldn’t Sancho have gone to Girona and rip up la leaga for a season and then get sold on or integrated in the first team squad. How a player goes from less than £10m to £100m inside a few games is mental but surely with big league experience we could have got a hell of a lot more.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I can understand this argument and @WallyA. I wonder though if we shouldn’t be smarter with loans. Why couldn’t Sancho have gone to Girona and rip up la leaga for a season and then get sold on or integrated in the first team squad. How a player goes from less than £10m to £100m inside a few games is mental but surely with big league experience we could have got a hell of a lot more.
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I think in the case of Sancho he simply didn’t want to, he didnt sign a contract because he wanted to control where he went it was completely out of our hands.
 
blueparrot said:
I think in the case of Sancho he simply didn’t want to, he didnt sign a contract because he wanted to control where he went it was completely out of our hands.
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This is definitely true, but you have to think about why he didn't want to; there is no clear progression of academy/loan players into the squad.

This means basically anybody of talent from here on forwards will be sold for some profit, even if we WANT to keep them (Sancho). City's history in this regards (over 10 years of history atleast) has been poor.

Off the top of my head players who should have been given a chance here of recent memory; Sancho, Diaz, David Brooks, Gunn, Celina, Rony Lopes, Denis Suarez, Jason Denayer, Angelino (although buyback), Patrick Roberts (still a loanee but probably gone), Seko Fofana...

Not saying these players would have made the squad, but they were never given a chance like the players we buy get; Stones (who has now awesome) was given alot of time integrate into our squad, Mahrez is also given the same luxury.
 
In the past 3 years we have sold about £150mil worth of young players, and arguably the only one we have messed up is Sancho who forced himself out the club

Plus as mentioned most of those deals have some sort of % of next sale or buybacks

We are gonna lose some fantastic prospects because we have the strongest squad in Europe and it's so competitive to break in, but we are making money to break even

And let's not forget the club are continually buying young players into the club e.g. Gomes, Knight, Touzani, Sandler, Bernabe for all the exciting ones that get away
 

Quite strong U18 lineup tonight. Braaf still missing with a shoulder injury and D'Margio Wright-Phillips misses out as well
 
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