Middle East Conflict (merged) | Iran launch missile attack after Israel invade Lebanon

[Vic]

It’s guerrilla warfare, not of their choosing, against cowards who use human shields, because they don’t give a fuck about the(ir) general population.

The settlers use IDF shields.

 

[metalblue]

Israel are never going to give any of the stolen land back, Therefore the cycle of violence will continue. The Palistinians are the victims here.

Innocent civilians on all sides are the victims. No one side can claim the morale high ground.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

What's it like having your land stolen by settlers? Netanyahu hasn't tried anything other than facilitate land grabs.

Plenty of Jews lost legally acquired land in 1948.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Innocent civilians on all sides are the victims. No one side can claim the morale high ground.

As Ric pointed out (although he never does anything about it), there's a group of people who only see one side of the story. Many of those curse the death of Muslims but justify or even applaud the deaths of Jews.

Imagine if it was the other way round?

 

[metalblue]

Plenty of Jews lost legally acquired land in 1948.

Nothing will ever solve while we hold on to historical wrongs.

Each side of the argument has been a **** at some time and on various occasions.

 

[inbetween]

Did you see the rubble in Europe after WWII?
Were my parents running into the air raid shelters for exercise?

War is horrific, which is why we do our utmost not to let/make it happen, but when it does there’s nothing sanitary, organized or convenient about it. Bad guys hide where they hope they will have an advantage, not in designated hiding spots.

The difference is though Israel are not at war with Lebanon, they're at war with Hezbollah who just so happen to reside in Lebanon. To indiscriminately bomb Lebanese people and call it simple collateral is just wrong. If Israel dropped a nuclear bomb on Beirut killing millions then is that collateral because apparently it seems so?

There are rules on proportionality and in WW2 the proportionality rule was equal to the point where it was basically eye for an eye. Anything Nazi Germany did to us we mostly did the same in return. That isn't the case here because the civilian casualties are disproportionally and massively weighted on one side.

How many civilians have been killed on the Israeli side? Even if you include 7/10, in the last year the ratio of Israeli civilian deaths to civilian deaths caused by Israel elsewhere must be something like 100000:1. How on earth could this be called reasonable self-defence?

You have one side with slingshots essentially and the other with F-35's. The burden on the better armed side is to show restraint and carefully plan attacks given their capability to do so, Israel hasn't done that clearly. Hezbollah won't do the same indeed but their capability of doing any damage is virtually nil.

I woud like to see the end of Hezbollah and Hamas but does that mean ending every single population within 500 miles of Israel too?

 

[metalblue]

As Ric pointed out (although he never does anything about it), there's a group of people who only see one side of the story. Many of those curse the death of Muslims but justify or even applaud the deaths of Jews.

Imagine if it was the other way round?

Of course but I don’t think it’s a hatred of Jewish people (always will be the odd nut job) but more people see a huge imbalance of power, very few of the missiles regular sent do any damage so there isn’t the same sympathy for Israel there would be if they got consistently through - for Israelis of course it’s a constant pressure point and it was inevitable that something would trigger a big response at some point. Israel has been attacked in varying degrees constantly for 80 odd years or at least been wary of foes who want their destruction. It’s an awful way to exist.

That said, for me the only thing anyone can ever change, is themselves. So what do you think Israel can do differently? Not the big actions like two state or whatever but small actions - specifically on the unprofessionalism of the IDF and the perceived inequalities the civilian population of Gaza and the West Bank endure - both of these actions do more to foster and breed hatred IMHO.

 

[robbieh]

I don’t know which land, or when, or even why. What I know is that they didn’t start this round of conflict, but they intend to end it on their terms, if and when they see fit.

Before the October 7th massacre, in 2023, 300 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank alone. This is an ongoing process. October 7th did not just happen in a vacuum.

 

[PPT]

Plenty of Jews lost legally acquired land in 1948.

Not to mention money, gold and art treasures that are still in the vaults of the Swiss banks.

 

[Gremlin]

How many civilians have been killed on the Israeli side? Even if you include 7/10, in the last year the ratio of Israeli civilian deaths to civilian deaths caused by Israel elsewhere must be something like 100000:1. How on earth could this be called reasonable self-defence?

815 Israeli civilians were killed on 7/10 (according to Wikipedia). Israel has not killed 81.5 million civilians since then. There is a legitimate argument about proportionality but it doesn't help that argument to use figures that are clearly wrong.