Middle East Conflict (merged)

[Bigga]

I think you're on the edge of what's acceptable. I think you'd like to say "controlled by Jews" but fear the accusation of antisemitism. It's not easy - the IHRC definition and examples of antisemitism tread a fine line of distinction between Israel's policies and Jews, but then the distinction is blurred by Israelis themselves so any criticism of Israel is decried as antisemitism.

Zionists living abroad is itself a self-contradiction. Zionism was (is still?) a call to all Jews to move to the Jewish state. Now that most Israelis are not immigrants but descendants of immigrants, how many still identify as Zionists?

Half of Israeli Jews are non-religious (Hiloni) which means they may be sceptical about the extent of Eretz Israel historically. Half of Israeli Jews think Arab Israelis should be expelled from Israel (not necessarily the same half or the other half).

Some of this goes back to the first half of the last century and what the Zionists thought should happen to the "indigenous" Arab population in the proposed Jewish State. That seems to vary from a rather racist assumption that lazy Arabs would be happy to benefit from the ingenuity and hard work of Jews to a realisation that usurping their land would not be an easy thing.

Anyway, that was really just personal musing as a preamble to sharing this article, a year on from October 7. It's useful, but is rather silent about conditions in Gaza and the West Bank prior to October 7.

A brutal year and a tale of two Israels: the one that is feared and the one that is fearful | Jonathan Freedland

There is a yawning gap between how the world sees Israel and how Israelis see themselves. If only each could see through the other’s eyes, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com

Just a point to note: people shouldn't conflate Judaism with Zionists. There are more Christian based faiths [in Gov] that are zionists than people think.

And the "Half of Israeli Jews" that "think Arab Israelis should be expelled from Israel" are antisemetic.

It's strange that the irony is lost on them.

 

[dublinblue12]

Emails show early US concerns over Gaza offensive and risk of Israeli war crimes | BreakingNews.ie

It comes as the Gaza war nears its first anniversary and the Middle East teeters on the brink of a wider war

www.breakingnews.ie

Drip drip

 

[BlueAnorak]

I don't think any of us including mr anorak will ever know the truth. The first reports were that nothing got through and gradually more official and unofficial footage of destruction caused by Iranian missiles is leaking out. There are good tactical reasons for Israel to claim the Iranian weapons were ineffective but clearly they are a threat which cannot be fully contained. It seems a lot of these missile defences strategies can be simply overwhelmed by an amount of missiles - part of the reason the US and Russia maintain nuclear arsenal's capable of destroying the world many times over. Any country claiming to have an impenetrable shield is doing so to manage fear and panic within its own population, demoralise the enemy etc. basically bollocks.

Believe what you fucking want mate.
But if you can HIT a bullet with a bullet YOU KNOW EXACTLY where a balistic missile is going to IMPACT to within CENTIMETRES.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Biden is a fuckin Monster, When his Presidency is looked back on he should be remembered for the Billions of Dollars of Missiles he sent to Israel to slaughter innocent folk. That's his Legacy complicit in Mass Murder.

And quite happy to let Russia masacre Ukrainian civilians too.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Believe what you fucking want mate.
But if you can HIT a bullet with a bullet YOU KNOW EXACTLY where a balistic missile is going to IMPACT to within CENTIMETRES.

Indeed, but you can't hit all of the bullets.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Indeed, but you can't hit all of the bullets.

But you can ignore the ones that are going to miss by 25+ metres.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

But you can ignore the ones that are going to miss by 25+ metres.

I'm not sure what you mean? Any missile defence system can only cope with so many targets (missiles) at once. If you don't have missiles that are smart or fast enough to pierce the defence then you just overwhelm it with numbers - this seems to be what Iran did.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I'm not sure what you mean? Any missile defences system can only cope with so many targets (missiles) at once. If you don't have missiles that are smart or fast enough to pierce the defence then you just overwhelm it with numbers - this seems to be what Iran did.

You don't need to hit the ones that are going to miss by much.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

You don't need to hit the ones that are going to miss by much.

Depends on what they are targeting.some targets don't need the same level of precision.

Iran probably wouldn't target heavily armoured positions. But they could send enough missiles up to target fuel refineries and other vulnerable strategic infrastructure.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

But you can ignore the ones that are going to miss by 25+ metres.

I'm not sure what you mean? Any missile defences system can only cope with so many targets (missiles) at once. If you don't have missiles that are smart or fast enough to pierce the defence then you just overwhelm it with numbers - this seems to be what Iran did. If for example the defensive capability can deal with 90 missiles and you need 10 to get through then you fire 100.