Middle East Conflict (merged)

[Two Gun Bob]

An echo chamber is a metaphorical description of a situation where beliefs or information are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition within a closed system, insulated from opposing views or rebuttals. This environment circulates existing views without encountering diverse perspectives, potentially leading to confirmation bias.

 

[SebastianBlue]

In 1967, when Nasser was dick-swinging around the Middle East, there was a UN force stationed in Sinai that had been there since Suez to protect international waterways.

Nasser ordered them out and the UN Secretary General meekly complied. With them out of the way Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran to international shipping. Israel said that would be a causus belli and they acted on that.

That led to the Six Day War, which left the West Bank & Gaza in Israeli hands. Had the UN force stayed put, it's doubtful the war would've happened and we wouldn't be where we are today.

The UN force in Lebanon was supposed to ensure that Hezbollah met the terms of the 2006 ceasefire and remained north of the Litani river. They conspicuously failed to do that, which is why we're where we are now in Lebanon.

So you could maybe understand why Israel has no faith in the UN.

The situation and outcome, as others have noted, was a bit more complicated than what you have described, as has been the UN peacekeeping and enforcement mission in Lebanon (partly because of Hezbollah’s actions since 2006, and partly because of Israel’s actions since 2006). I can speak from experience in this particular discussion, as I was in Israel after the ceasefire was agreed and saw first hand the actions of both sides at the time. And, for those that may not remember, Netanyahu lead Israel in some very provocative rhetoric and tactics almost as soon as he reentered office in 2009. He has always been unhappy with the terms of the ceasefire and has worked to undermine it at essentially every opportunity.

But even putting that aside, and simply accepting your premise of the UN failing Israel in Lebanon, I don’t think you are arguing that Netanyahu et al are justified in ordering attacks on UNIFIL personnel, their positions, or demanding their withdrawal, surely?

 

[fulabeer]

The UN isn't fit for purpose.
It wants scrapping and redrawing up, if that is even possible.

Personally, i think nations need to create a new union.

 

[robbieh]

An echo chamber is a metaphorical description of a situation where beliefs or information are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition within a closed system, insulated from opposing views or rebuttals. This environment circulates existing views without encountering diverse perspectives, potentially leading to confirmation bias.

Imagine what the echo chamber is like in Israel!

 

[robbieh]

The UN isn't fit for purpose.
It wants scrapping and redrawing up, if that is even possible.

Personally, i think nations need to create a new union.

No they don't. It's a thankless task as the big players like the US, Russia, China et al will do want they want regardless of the wishes of the rest of the world.

 

[Vic]

There's some utter crap posted on here but that takes the absolute biscuit.

Nothing in it then? Not on the Smotrich wish list?

Shomrim - A Lot of Torah and Very Little Dialogue: Bezalel Smotrich’s Plan to Radically Change the Character of Israel

Women? "Get married and have a lot of children for Israel’s sake.’ Arabs? ‘You are here by mistake because Ben Gurion did not get the job done.’ LGBTQ+? ‘Imagine if the disabled were to demand that everyone cut off their own leg.’ Reform Judaism? ‘There should be no room for a public space...

www.shomrim.news

 

[blueinsa]

I accept that @blueinsa
I do however feel the Irish stance is correct and while hoping no harm comes to the few troops that are there, I do hope they stand by our principles.
I had a politician come around my door on Friday with a local election coming up. Normally I’d take the leaflet and run them. However he asked so I gave him some of my local concerns off the top of my head.

I did though, tell him that the government and Presidential stance is wholeheartedly supporting what the views on the ground are, here in Ireland. The representation globally, so far, does have the support of the people.

Have a listen to this Israeli historian.
Get to the end. What is needed is the 3 A’s.
Netanyahu has no desire of them. Peace is not his goal and never was.

And like yourself, that in no way condones the actions of Hamas or Hezbollah.
That is not where I am coming from.

Peacekeepers do an incredibly dangerous and important role and they should never be the target for anyone, it is that simple.

Netanyahu should be on a leash and replaced asap and would be but for the enemy Israel is facing whose attitudes towards human life is no better I’m afraid.

 

[Vic]

...

Meanwhile, israel is pressing on (hard) with its genocide in northern Gaza. As usual, it doesn't look like they're bothering to report these massacres in our media but it looks like last night was another horror show:

BBC radio's religious slot has a piece - the last Christians in Gaza (not quite) (from 29 min 15) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0023x2s

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Nothing in it then? Not on the Smotrich wish list?

Shomrim - A Lot of Torah and Very Little Dialogue: Bezalel Smotrich’s Plan to Radically Change the Character of Israel

Women? "Get married and have a lot of children for Israel’s sake.’ Arabs? ‘You are here by mistake because Ben Gurion did not get the job done.’ LGBTQ+? ‘Imagine if the disabled were to demand that everyone cut off their own leg.’ Reform Judaism? ‘There should be no room for a public space...

www.shomrim.news

Even by Netanyahu's standards, Smotrich is a lunatic. It's like some of the far-right nutters here, who want to deport all Muslims. Do they represent the mainstream? No.
Do you seriously believe that's a strategic aim of Israel? No you don't.

The problem in this thread is people quoting extremists and insisting they represent mainstream opinions.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Israeli media outlet Haaretz:

"Israeli Defense Officials: Gov't Pushing Aside Hostage Deal, Eyeing Gaza Annexation​

IDF commanders in Gaza say the recent decision to operate in the northern part of the Strip was taken without proper deliberations, and is apparently aimed at pressuring civilians in the area to relocate"