Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

goalmole said:
A belief without a rational foundation and knowledge is merely a prejudice.

There was another horrid situation that existed in Gaza before October 7th, and that was the incarceration and repression of a population of 2.3 million people in a small strip of land where the air, land and sea is controlled by a hostile power which also controls the food, water, fuel, power, medical supplies at a subsistence level. Where there is no opportunity to develop an economy, which has an unemployment rate of 40% with the available jobs paying barely enough survive on. There are people in Gaza who have never known what it is like to eat a full meal.
On top of all this the separation wall is an automated killing machine with remote cameras, sensors and guns. Where cameras and automated point directly a people's houses and roofs of houses waiting to detect movement before immediately opening fire.
On top of this again, the IDF regularly bombs the Strip in what they call "mowing the lawn", designed to degrade infrastructure and any development the residents of this concentration camp may have managed to build up since the last time the lawn was mowed.
No one can live under the conditions Israel imposes on the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.
The only surprising thing about this is that it took as long as it did for the Palestinians to rise up and fight back in anyway they could.


This conflict did not start on October 7th.
You really need to look a bit deeper at the occupation. There are hundreds of videos on YouTube, made by reputable journalists and news organisations that you need to look at and then come back hand on heart and tell us if you would be willing to live under those conditions without wanting to fight for your family, your house, your land and your people.
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Excellent post which tells it as it is.
 
Vic said:
Seriously? You really want someone to post evidence of settler land grabs? You can't just google "settler land grabs" or look at a map?
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Maybe you should go back a post or two and look at the initial post instead of jumping in half cocked looking foolish. That goes for your little "likes" posters as well.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
So we need to be understanding of those who murder, rape and kidnap do we?

Typical comment showing the moral depravity of the terrorist sympathisers and apologists in this thread, and why I largely stay out of it now. "Yeah we all condemn it but we understand why it happens".

It's a fucking moral cesspit.
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The moral cesspit is when people smear others and don't condemn the murderous barbarity on BOTH sides.
 
There will be tunnels all over Gaza. Some for military purposes and some for smugglers and some may have been used for both.

The tunnel isn't any evidence of a command and control centre though is it?

If you are ten metres underground, you'll need communications infrastructure. No evidence of that, there isn't even any weapons stores down there. I couldn't see any ventilation systems in the clip either, wouldn't they be necessary for long spells in a single space underground. Wouldn't the IDF highlight them if they existed and were complex?

The IDF imagining of a 4 or 5 storey subterranean complex is this conflict's Tora Bora. Credit to other posters who already mentioned it. It's fanciful stuff and straight out of movies and videogames.
 
Eebo said:
I have heard nothing from you or any other supporter of Israel to suggest that you have any qualms about what the IDF is doing.
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Zabbasbeard said:
The moral cesspit is when people smear others and don't condemn the murderous barbarity on BOTH sides.
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Here's what I posted on page 913.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

I see that but are you saying that the existence of Israel itself is an occupation? or are you saying that the Israelis venturing outside Israeli borders are the occupation. i.e. Does Israel have a right to exist. If I suddenly had the idea of setting up a country for me and my friends to live...
forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Yet no one has to be understanding of the only liberal democracy in the Middle East fighting a murderous bunch of psychopathic, intolerant, indoctrinated thugs.

As you say, the hypocrisy is indeed off the scale.
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Only liberal democracy? Seriously?

A liberal democracy doesn't allow and encourage repeated settler violence and human rights abuses like Netanyahu and his far right government do.

It is shameful to smear people who call that out, especially when people condemn the murderous barbarism on BOTH sides.

The answer to this is political - a two state solution with a fair allocation of land and a recognition of each other's right to exist.

If only the extremists on both sides were sidelined and reason could prevail.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Yet no one has to be understanding of the only liberal democracy in the Middle East fighting a murderous bunch of psychopathic, intolerant, indoctrinated thugs.

As you say, the hypocrisy is indeed off the scale.
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Hahahaha the only ethno state liberal democracy get off your high horse mate. Remember USA is a liberal democracy don't see many human rights there...
 
Zabbasbeard said:
Only liberal democracy? Seriously?

A liberal democracy doesn't allow and encourage repeated settler violence and human rights abuses like Netanyahu and his far right government do.

It is shameful to smear people who call that out, especially when people condemn the murderous barbarism on BOTH sides.

The answer to this is political - a two state solution with a fair allocation of land and a recognition of each other's right to exist.

If only the extremists on both sides were sidelined and reason could prevail.
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I absolutely agree.

But it's still a democracy, however imperfect its actions. I've said on here many times that the settlers are an absolute curse and their enablement by a nasty right-wing coalition is criminal. I hope the many decent people in Israel see this eventually but the electoral system gives the lunatics a voice.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm not sure anyone likes it - it's horrible to see. I looked at my two little granddaughters last week and thought what it must be like for kids like them in Gaza. Or the ones in Israel who are held hostage or whose parents were massacred on October 7th which none of you seem equally bothered about. But why do you think they're doing it?

Hamas, supposedly the representatives and government of the people of Gaza, have hidden among those people. They've spent probably over £1bn on building tunnels under mosques, hospital, schools etc., rather than spending it on things that would benefit the whole population and seeking a peaceful settlement. They knew what would happen, but I'm not sure they counted on the ferocity of the response.

They talk about martyrdom but hide in tunnels and are happy to let innocents get killed. They're fucking murderous scum and sometimes you need to take sides, even if it's not a particularly wholesome choice.
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Nothing justifies what Hamas or Israel have done. Nothing. All those people murdered, raped kidnapped. None of it. I'm concerned about those people equally, as are several others on this thread, even though this clearly isn't an equal struggle. Are you?
 
Zabbasbeard said:
Nothing justifies what Hamas or Israel have done. Nothing. All those people murdered, raped kidnapped. None of it. I'm concerned about those people equally, as are several others on this thread, even though this clearly isn't an equal struggle. Are you?
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No! Israel is fully justified in trying to wipe Hamas out following October 7th. We can certainly criticise how they've gone about that but the justification can't be argued. If you can't see that then I pity you.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Here's what I posted on page 913.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

I see that but are you saying that the existence of Israel itself is an occupation? or are you saying that the Israelis venturing outside Israeli borders are the occupation. i.e. Does Israel have a right to exist. If I suddenly had the idea of setting up a country for me and my friends to live...
forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk
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That spending billions of dollars on tunnels comment doesn’t look so good in the cold light of day.



(I know you weren’t saying a billion alone on them but you get my drift)
 
inchy14 said:
That spending billions of dollars on tunnels comment doesn’t look so good in the cold light of day.



(I know you weren’t saying a billion alone on them but you get my drift)
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That's the estimate of how much they've spent on building tunnels. $1bn. These things don't build themselves. And billions have been diverted into Hamas leaders' pockets. They give less of a fuck about the ordinary Gaza citizens than even Israel does.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
No! Israel is fully justified in trying to wipe Hamas out following October 7th. We can certainly criticise how they've gone about that but the justification can't be argued. If you can't see that then I pity you.
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Pity all you like.
There is no justification for the murdering of civilians in this by either side. They shouldn't die in the cause of wiping out anyone. That's what is happening.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
That's the estimate of how much they've spent on building tunnels. $1bn. These things don't build themselves. And billions have been diverted into Hamas leaders' pockets. They give less of a fuck about the ordinary Gaza citizens than even Israel does.
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I’ve just watched the video on sky regarding that tunnel… fuck me if you think that’s where billions of dollars went….
 
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