Middle East Conflict

[Postman Pep]

 

[Vic]

Oh please, not more of this historical stuff. We might learn something.

 

[KPXBLN]

It may be a bit simplistic and doubtless each of these groups have their own individual agendas but Iran provide weapons and training to each of them and they don’t do it without expecting something in return.

I accept that, but I think it's a question of where you place the emphasis. Maybe I can make my point clearer by saying that the relationship between the US and Israel is at least as strong as that between Iran and Hamas (and I'd argue, a lot stronger), but we don't have a problem recognising that Israel is an independent actor, with its own internal dynamics and agenda, not a US proxy. It's another way of saying that the solution to the conflict ultimately lies in addressing the grievances of the Palestinian people; the West's military and/or diplomatic stance towards Iran is a secondary issue, though an important one. (though having this discussion on here is depressingly moot, not as if we'll solve anything)

 

[bluethrunthru]

US sanctions Israeli settlers over West Bank violence

The US president sanctions four Israeli settlers accused of attacking Palestinians.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[grunge]

Iran learning a lesson the US has learned over and over. you arm proxy groups. those proxy groups tend to believe the rhetoric not the reality of things, and will end up on occasion coming back to bite you. the Houthis are a prime example. hitting shipping is hitting the west, but its also hitting Iran's alies China and India

 

[remember arthur mann]

US sanctions Israeli settlers over West Bank violence

The US president sanctions four Israeli settlers accused of attacking Palestinians.

www.bbc.co.uk

Settlers.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I accept that, but I think it's a question of where you place the emphasis. Maybe I can make my point clearer by saying that the relationship between the US and Israel is at least as strong as that between Iran and Hamas (and I'd argue, a lot stronger), but we don't have a problem recognising that Israel is an independent actor, with its own internal dynamics and agenda, not a US proxy. It's another way of saying that the solution to the conflict ultimately lies in addressing the grievances of the Palestinian people; the West's military and/or diplomatic stance towards Iran is a secondary issue, though an important one. (though having this discussion on here is depressingly moot, not as if we'll solve anything)

Personally, I don't think anyone, anywhere really cares about the Palestinians at all and the US/Iran issue is the overarching dispute to this whole thing.

 

[KPXBLN]

Personally, I don't think anyone, anywhere really cares about the Palestinians at all and the US/Iran issue is the overarching dispute to this whole thing.

I'm not sure if you're being serious, but that's clearly not true. Just to give an example from my own experience, Berlin has the largest Palestinian population in Europe - these people are, obviously, attending the ceasefire demos in large numbers, which I've also been on. Nobody is talking or chanting about Iran, they don't give a shit about it. They're saying please stop killing our families.

The Palestinian dispute with Israel long predates the US-Iran dispute. The PLO was founded 15 years before the Ayatollah took over Iran. (And the PLO itself isn't actually when the conflict started).

 

[cucumberman]

 

[halfcenturyup]

I'm not sure if you're being serious, but that's clearly not true. Just to give an example from my own experience, Berlin has the largest Palestinian population in Europe - these people are, obviously, attending the ceasefire demos in large numbers, which I've also been on. Nobody is talking or chanting about Iran, they don't give a shit about it. They're saying please stop killing our families.

The Palestinian dispute with Israel long predates the US-Iran dispute. The PLO was founded 15 years before the Ayatollah took over Iran. (And the PLO itself isn't actually when the conflict started).

:) I meant geopolitically.