Middle East Conflict

[KS55]

An independent Palestine has no hope unless:
1. Netanyahu is deposed. He has referred to the Palestinians as “the enemy” for twenty years and has said that doing a deal with them is out of the question.
2. The USA does more than pay lip service to the two state solution. Real pressure needs to be brought on a recalcitrant Israeli gov. USA has plenty of leverage in its financial support for Israeli defence.

 

[Vic]

Surprised at this thread.

Some borderline anti-Semitism here but I understand its an emotional issue and sometimes people don't consider the phrasing. That's fine, we all mess that up.

I would suggest that the dichotomy that has developed that Palestine are an innocent population/Israel is a genocidal force vs Israel is an innocent being attacked by Hamas terrorists lacks a lot of nuance.

And that post lacks a lot of nuance.

 

[west didsblue]

The Palestinian resistance is a dual track effort similar to the IRA’s bullet and ballot box strategy.
The political wing is Hezbollah and the military wing is Hamas. They are both part of the same organisation.
Hamas is designated a terrorist organisation by the UK gov.
Purposes and methods are often conflated in these discussions: terrorism is a method, while liberation is an objective. A “freedom fighter” becomes a terrorist the moment his methods include targeting non-combatant civilians.

Hezbollah is a political, military and terrorist entity based in Lebanon which also operates in Syria. It’s separate to Hamas which is the equivalent political, military and terrorist group in Gaza. They both also act as Iranian proxies in addition to having their own agendas. The same also applies to the Houthis in Yemen.

 

[Palerider]

Surprised at this thread.

Some borderline anti-Semitism here but I understand its an emotional issue and sometimes people don't consider the phrasing. That's fine, we all mess that up.

I would suggest that the dichotomy that has developed that Palestine are an innocent population/Israel is a genocidal force vs Israel is an innocent being attacked by Hamas terrorists lacks a lot of nuance.

I'm not surprised at all. We live in a world where everyone who voted to leave a trading group is called racist, everyone who supports Israel is Islamaphobic and everyone who supports Palestine is called anti-semitic. What about Liverpool fans, boo the National Anthem because it's royalist but self identify as European Royalty!
Saddam killed nearly 200,000 Kurds in Iraq but thousands marched to leave him in power because we shouldn't interfere. Now the same thousands are marching so that we should interfere with Palestine. I'm actually with an elderly Jewish UK gentleman who was interviewed early in the war on one of the talk stations. He asked where all the demonstrators were when 33,000 Syrian children were being murdered/killed. His conclusion, and I think this is probably true, that to many, it's not the deaths of innocents that is the concern but the political affiliation of the killer.
One final point, When the UN or whatever they were called then decided to split the area into Israel/Palestine one of the 'nuances' they had to consider was that one side contained 95% of the wealth and moneymakers and the other side all of the poor. If you think about that, splitting any country into rich and poor will always cause resentment.

 

[hcblue95]

I'm not surprised at all. We live in a world where everyone who voted to leave a trading group is called racist, everyone who supports Israel is Islamaphobic and everyone who supports Palestine is called anti-semitic. What about Liverpool fans, boo the National Anthem because it's royalist but self identify as European Royalty!
Saddam killed nearly 200,000 Kurds in Iraq but thousands marched to leave him in power because we shouldn't interfere. Now the same thousands are marching so that we should interfere with Palestine. I'm actually with an elderly Jewish UK gentleman who was interviewed early in the war on one of the talk stations. He asked where all the demonstrators were when 33,000 Syrian children were being murdered/killed. His conclusion, and I think this is probably true, that to many, it's not the deaths of innocents that is the concern but the political affiliation of the killer.
One final point, When the UN or whatever they were called then decided to split the area into Israel/Palestine one of the 'nuances' they had to consider was that one side contained 95% of the wealth and moneymakers and the other side all of the poor. If you think about that, splitting any country into rich and poor will always cause resentment.

I don't think anyone marching wants us to send British troops to Gaza.

 

[Vic]

I'm not surprised at all. We live in a world where everyone who voted to leave a trading group is called racist, everyone who supports Israel is Islamaphobic and everyone who supports Palestine is called anti-semitic. What about Liverpool fans, boo the National Anthem because it's royalist but self identify as European Royalty!
Saddam killed nearly 200,000 Kurds in Iraq but thousands marched to leave him in power because we shouldn't interfere. Now the same thousands are marching so that we should interfere with Palestine. I'm actually with an elderly Jewish UK gentleman who was interviewed early in the war on one of the talk stations. He asked where all the demonstrators were when 33,000 Syrian children were being murdered/killed. His conclusion, and I think this is probably true, that to many, it's not the deaths of innocents that is the concern but the political affiliation of the killer.
One final point, When the UN or whatever they were called then decided to split the area into Israel/Palestine one of the 'nuances' they had to consider was that one side contained 95% of the wealth and moneymakers and the other side all of the poor. If you think about that, splitting any country into rich and poor will always cause resentment.

Re the Syrian civil war, against whom would one protest? It was hard to protest anyway when (after Iraq) most who would protest had argued against western intervention, and that argument had prevailed.

Re the "moneymakers", which side are they? (In a daft paragraph, by the way.)

 

[The blue phantom]

And that post lacks a lot of nuance.

Also lacks any evidence

 

[BayernMan]

Imagine thinking this makes you look good. I guess they expected starving people to cue in an orderly manner…

 

[cucumberman]

I don't think anyone marching wants us to send British troops to Gaza.

Back to Gaza will reminisce the time when Haganah Irgun and Lehi attacking British troops. We abandoned Palestine quicktime in 1948 because of the increasing tension and animosity and hatred of Zionists against us.

Never forget that inside the majority moderate and ambivalent Jews who longed for the State of Israel and willing to wait for a political and win-win solution for us, Jews and Palestinians, there was that terror cell called Lehi. The cell that sought partnership with Nazis to throw us out of at that time British mandate Palestine.

They were very willing to join forces with Nazis.They signed the Havaara Agreement, they conducted assassinations on our soldiers and our prime ministers. Zettler and Stern were just the two of the leaders of Lehi, as the offshoot of Irgun, open to ally with Nazis.

Remember that the first steam ship (SS Tel Aviv) of Jews moving to Palestine was hoisting which flag.

How about that commemorative coin…

And here’s a list of British soldiers and officers killed in Palestine by Zionist Lehi before the 1st Nakba.

1. T.G. Martin, British Police Sergeant. Executed at tennis court, Sep 1946
2. Major John Doran, and a number of British soldiers. Food Control Office bombed, Sep 1946
3. British soldiers dead and wounded by hundreds. Bombed the cars of British soldiers during curfew, 1946
4. British soldiers killed by dozens. Car bomb attack. Dec 1946
5. British police sergeant. Shot and killed outside of police station. The police station then after bombed and policemen killed. Jan 1947
6. British officers killed. Barclays Bank. Feb 1947
7. A British officer and 3 policemen killed. Commanders Office. Apr 1947
8. Assistant Superintendent of Police Albert Conquest. Killed by submachine gun. Spins Store. Apr 1947.
9. British soldiers killed, because in response to British detaining Lehi youth Alex Rubowitz, May 1947.
10. Major Roy Farran’s brother, killed by mail bomb. own house.
11. 50 British soldiers and policemen. Killed by bombing. Ben Yehuda Street. Jan 1948
12. George White and William Alfred Harrison, British bomb experts requested by Arabs to help defuse the Zionist bombs. They failed, bombed exploded and killed the two British Experts and Arabs. Mar 1948.
13. British soldiers and officers killed. Romema, Apr 1948
14. 338 British soldiers killed throughout the war. The british soldiers left Palestine immediately days after Israel Independence, 14 May 1948 4:00PM.

Other attacks outside Palestine include the many assassination attempts. On General Evelyn Barker, Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin, Baron Moyne Walter Edward Guiness (assassinated in Cairo).

After the IDF was established, the Lehi, Irgun and Haganah registered into the IDF. In years after, prominent leaders held high government offices, including Prime Ministers - Yitzhak Shamir (formerly Lehi leader who attacked British in Palestine), Menachem Begin (formerly Irgun leader who attacked British in Palestine, including bombing the British HQ in King David Hotel).

In the 1940s, our troops were defensive of Arabs and against the mass immigration of illegal Jew refugees. The process was meant to be through legal means. But that is against the Zionist terror cells‘ perception of the Promised Land. It’s not a surprise that after the Israel independence, the Nakba happened after.

Most importantly, do not conflate all Jews as complying to the right wing Greater Zionism. As early as 1910 that US Jews were against the Zionism and the establishment of Israel.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I don't think Hamas is a terrorist organization. Some actions of Hamas are in line with the definition of terrorist attacks, but Hamas exists because an independent Palestine cannot be established, and the Palestinian people have suffered from injustice for a long time. Hamas should be called a resistance organization rather than a terrorist organization. Calling Hamas a terrorist organization is a smear on the Palestinian people's resistance movement, and a beautification of Israeli oppression.

A resistance organisation? An organisation that butchers innocent people, committed one of the worst terrorist acts in recent memory and thinks Jewish people should be wiped off the map.

Can I have some of what your smoking. Do you think that about the person who blew up Manchester arena? Isis?

What the Isreal government doing is awful, but you can’t honestly defend Hamas and then suggest they represent the Palestinian people. Ridiculous take