Middle East Conflict

[ChicagoBlue]

Ah so these weapons are to deal with Iran. There's me thinking they keep getting used to murder Tens of thousands of Palestinians. Glad you've cleared it up.

And that, right there, is why you sound silly, and sarcasm isn’t always your best gambit lest it backfires.

However, if you can show me where the 2000lb bombs are dropped and F-15s used to kill Palestinians, by serial number, please, I’ll apologize.

In the absence of such evidence, I’ll assume that the Israelis want to ensure their stockpiles are in good order and improve/increase their military power over time, just as most nations do. Because the U.S. supplies most of that hardware, it would seem logical to get it from their usual supplier, don’t you think?

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WASHINGTON, March 29 (Reuters) - The U.S. in recent days authorized the transfer of billions of dollars worth of bombs and fighter jets to Israel, two sources familiar with the effort said on Friday, even as Washington publicly expresses concerns about an anticipated Israeli military offensive in Rafah.

The new arms packages include more than 1,800 MK84 2,000-pound bombs and 500 MK82 500-pound bombs, said the sources, who confirmed a report in the Washington Post.

The decision on weapons follows a visit to Washington by Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant this week when he discussed Israel's weapons needs with U.S. counterparts.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Gallant, apparently seeking to cool U.S.-Israeli tensions, said he stressed the importance of U.S. ties to his country's security and of maintaining Israel’s "qualitative military edge" in the region, including its air capabilities.

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Btw, do you have delivery dates?
Are they even in theater yet?

I’ll help you out…

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The F-15 order was reported earlier by Politico and CNN and confirmed by two U.S. officials. The deal, which would be one of the largest U.S. arms sales to Israel in years, would also include munitions, training and other support.

Although the United States has expedited some arms for Israel’s current campaign against Hamas, the F-15s would not be delivered for at least five years, the U.S. officials said.

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[SebastianBlue]

When is Bluemoon going to wake up to the fact that Netanyahu wants all the hostages back and Hamas obliterated? Has he been too subtle?

The far-right Israeli government’s campaign in Gaza (and the West Bank) has very little to do with getting the hostages back (even Israeli citizens have woken up to that in recent weeks). And destroying Hamas is itself a pretext for enacting their vision for “solving” the Palestinian “problem”.

When is the global community going to demand the hostages be returned?

They have, over and over, since 7th October. Calling for the end to genocidal acts by Israel in Gaza and the Weat Bank can and has happened at the same time as calling for the return of hostages and accountability for the horrific terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens. All whilst continually supporting Israel’s violent campaign that many neutral observers have indicated violates international law.

And, don’t get me wrong…I think aid should be allowed in by road and that emergency services restored, but Hamas is using human shields and when they get hurt, who is getting the blame? War is hell. I get it.

“War is hell” is the same excuse Putin has repeatedly made regarding his abhorrent and illegal acts across Ukraine (and his own country). It is now the refrain of Netanyahu as the IDF murder aid workers in addition to killing, disabling, displacing, and/or starving hundreds of thousands Palestinians (mostly children, which surely we can all agree can’t be found at fault for the last century of turmoil in the region or the 7th October attacks). It is not a reasonable excuse for anything. All war is a crime, but that doesn’t give participants carte blanche to commit genocide, regardless of whether other outside nefarious actors (like Iran) are influencing the conflict.

 

[Postman Pep]

I think we can agree that Biden nor Trump are suitable.

It depends really upon your point of view of whether you want these conflicts to end or not. I just feel that it is more likely that the conflicts will end with Trump because unlike Biden that's what he's saying he'll do. Whether that ends in favour of the Palestinians is a very different matter but no US president is going to put Palestine above Israel. It is therefore pointless to somehow expect any US president to take charge and resolve what is happening.

I don't think that people quite understand or realise just how perilous the global security situation is and why Gaza/Palestine is just another proxy war in this huge escalation of east vs west. At this stage it doesn't require much to trigger the most devastating war in history. Ships and military sites are now under open attack in the Middle East, NATO is threatened with nuclear attack and is threatening Russia in return. This level of serious escalation and open attack has never happened before and what is Biden doing about it?

What's happening over there is essentially an extension of proxy wars with the axis of Iran, Syria and Russia. You only have to ask where does Palestine fit into this? It doesn't, the Palestinians are just a pawn in a much bigger game however they're part of that game. None of the countries that support the likes of Hamas want peace, Iran has a state aim to completely destroy Israel, they do not care about the Palestinians.

I still maintain that the only future for the Palestinians is one where they must be separated from Hamas and the game that is being played around them. That can only happen if Hamas surrenders and the Palestinian authorities are able to take charge of their future. Anything else means war and suffering. Palestinian supporters who also support Hamas are sending the Palestinians to their deaths because they're essentially supporting a fight against an advanced military state where the end result is inevitable.

Doesn't matter how many times you post this proxy war/ pawns in a game/ everything will end if Hamas surrenders bollocks .... it's still bollocks. Why not save your keyboard the wear and tear and just copy and paste what you posted the other day, or last week or last month and so on.

All those paragraphs but never a mention of occupation, segregation, blockades, checkpoints, demolitions..... I could go on. Do you seriously believe that Palestinian resistance would just melt away if Hamas were 'dealt with'? Resistance exists because of the injustices imposed by Israel not because they are having their strings pulled by the 'mad mullahs' or that they are unwilling pawns in Putins evil plans.

As for the last bit the people sending Palestinians to their deaths are the Israeli regime and their army of pyschopaths together with their Western enablers. Genocide isn't an inevitable outcome ... this is not a freak weather event ffs.

 

[SebastianBlue]

You cannot isolate what is happening by not addressing the greater picture. My opinion is that this is a pointless conversation because Hamas can never win and Israel will continue whilst Hamas remains because the greater picture is an existential threat to Israel. Therefore, there is no future for the Palestinians and there will be no end to the suffering and war whilst a Russia-Syrian-Iran aligned Hamas remain in power in Gaza.

If your view is that only Israel is responsible for this and the rest is irrelevant then the only conceivable thing that needs to happen for peace is regime change in Israel but that isn't going to happen anytime soon is it? I'd love to see regime change in Russia to end the war in Ukraine but that definitely isn't going to happen and we can't make it happen without risking nuclear war.

In the meantime nobody in the west is going to sanction or harm Israel given the factional threats that now exist against the west in the Middle East. The west is far more likely to help Israel more given what Russia, Syria and Iran are doing in the region. Those countries have chosen to isolate Israel and that in itself is a much larger threat to Israel and it's why western support has never been more important to it.

I can isolate the fact that the far-right in Israel is attempting (and unfortunately succeeding) to enact their vision for “solving” the Palestinian “problem” and securing absolute control over Israel.

If you wish to ignore what is actually happening in Israel and Palestine, in favour of larger geopolitical machinations that are largely the result of a century (or more) of western imperialist interventions in the region, then you are free to do so. Play in to Putin’s and Netanyahu’s narratives of appeasement and complicity all you like.

But my immediate concerns are for the Palestinians, who are being systematically murdered by a far-right movement that wants all Palestinians dead, and the Israeli people (including my family), whose futures are also being destroyed by this far-right genocidal bloodlust and draconian crackdown on secularism and the rule of law.

The discussion about the wider considerations, conflicts, and proxy wars are a topic for other threads.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The far-right Israeli government’s campaign in Gaza (and the West Bank) has very little to do with getting the hostages back (even Israeli citizens have woken up to that in recent weeks). And destroying Hamas is itself a pretext for enacting their vision for “solving” the Palestinian “problem”.

Then, call their bluff and return all the hostages!

I’m not a Netanyahu fan, but FAFO seems the orders of the day, and that seems reasonable to a point.

They have, over and over, since 7th October. Calling for the end to genocidal acts by Israel in Gaza and the Weat Bank can and has happened at the same time as calling for the return of hostages and accountability for the horrific terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens. All whilst continually supporting Israel’s violent campaign that many neutral observers have indicated violates international law.

Quandary, huh? The liberal west wants everyone to get everything and so-called neutrals, who are not the target of an actual “from the river to the sea” genocidal desire, think violence violates intl law. Shocked! Shocked, I say!

“War is hell” is the same excuse Putin has repeatedly made regarding his abhorrent and illegal acts across Ukraine (and his own country). It is now the refrain of Netanyahu as the IDF murder aid workers in addition to killing, disabling, displacing, and/or starving hundreds of thousands Palestinians (mostly children, which surely we can all agree can’t be found at fault for the last century of turmoil in the region or the 7th October attacks). It is not a reasonable excuse for anything. All war is a crime, but that doesn’t give participants carte blanche to commit genocide, regardless of whether other outside nefarious actors (like Iran) are influencing the conflict.

It’s ironic that I’m agreeing with you that Gazan’s are being unduly punished, while you lecture me on spouting Putin when I said “war is hell.”

And, the inflammatory language serves no real purpose, so keep the “murder” and “genocide” to yourself, not to mention the “all war is a crime” nonsense.

Love how you throw away the important line about “nefarious actors” at the end. One might almost miss who actually funded, desired and started this war!

 

[Vic]

You cannot isolate what is happening by not addressing the greater picture. My opinion is that this is a pointless conversation because Hamas can never win and Israel will continue whilst Hamas remains because the greater picture is an existential threat to Israel. Therefore, there is no future for the Palestinians and there will be no end to the suffering and war whilst a Russia-Syrian-Iran aligned Hamas remain in power in Gaza.

If your view is that only Israel is responsible for this and the rest is irrelevant then the only conceivable thing that needs to happen for peace is regime change in Israel but that isn't going to happen anytime soon is it? I'd love to see regime change in Russia to end the war in Ukraine but that definitely isn't going to happen and we can't make it happen without risking nuclear war.

In the meantime nobody in the west is going to sanction or harm Israel given the factional threats that now exist against the west in the Middle East. The west is far more likely to help Israel more given what Russia, Syria and Iran are doing in the region. Those countries have chosen to isolate Israel and that in itself is a much larger threat to Israel and it's why western support has never been more important to it.

So the genocide is OK?

 

[Vic]

For a minute there, I thought I’d dropped in on the Joke Thread @Gorton_Tubster!

Boycott anything Israeli??
What, like Jesus???
And I suppose you boycotted Easter this year and explained it to your kids, right?

When are some on Bluemoon going to wake up to the fact that Netanyahu wants all the hostages back and Hamas obliterated? Has he been too subtle?

When is the global community going to demand the hostages be returned?

And, don’t get me wrong…I think aid should be allowed in by road and that emergency services restored, but Hamas is using human shields and when they get hurt, who is getting the blame? War is hell. I get it.

No easy solutions, but a few of the obvious Starters for 10 wouldn’t go amiss.

As for the U.S. providing munitions, get over it. It is a vital geopolitical ally and can’t be left bare-arsed with Iran playing silly buggers. Now, though, it’d be nice if Congressional Republicans could spare a thought for the Ukrainians!!!

Weird. How was Jesus Israeli? He was from the tribe of Judah. "Israel" hadn't existed for 700 years.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Hamas wants carnage against Palestinians as this - at a minimum - will build hatred against Israel.

And Netanyahu couldn't be more pleased with proceedings - as this gives him cover to play the role of Protector - in that role he'll attempt to wipe out Hamas no matter the cost to innocent lives.

Both sides love the ongoing carnage as it serves their agendas.

 

[Vic]

And that, right there, is why you sound silly, and sarcasm isn’t always your best gambit lest it backfires.

However, if you can show me where the 2000lb bombs are dropped and F-15s used to kill Palestinians, by serial number, please, I’ll apologize.

https://edition.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Weird. How was Jesus Israeli? He was from the tribe of Judah. "Israel" hadn't existed for 700 years.

Pedant.