Middle East Conflict



"It's the Jews. Even when I thought it was the immigrants, I always knew it was the Jews"

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Surprised at this thread.

Some borderline anti-Semitism here but I understand its an emotional issue and sometimes people don't consider the phrasing. That's fine, we all mess that up.

I would suggest that the dichotomy that has developed that Palestine are an innocent population/Israel is a genocidal force vs Israel is an innocent being attacked by Hamas terrorists lacks a lot of nuance.

I'm not sure if you were being disingenuous here or if you just made a mistake, but I will assume the latter. Your post includes the common mistake/tactic of conflating the state and state apparatus of Israel with the Israeli people. This is a common tactic of the apologists for the state of Israel, as seen multiple times in this thread, precisely because it creates these kinds of false dichotomy.

During the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan there were accusations that the UK had committed war crimes. This was political criticism of our state and state apparatus, not a criticism of British people and most definitely not racist. The same is true of criticism of the policies of the state of Israel and the actions of its state apparatus. It is political criticism, not criticism of the Israeli people or anti-Semitism.

Your post should have had the same level of disambiguation for Israel as it did for Hamas/Palestinians. If it had then your two positions would have been "Genocidal Israel vs. innocent Palestinians" and "Terrorist Hamas vs. innocent Israelis". These two positions are not mutually exclusive and introduce the nuance you think the positions people take are lacking. I would hazard a guess that most if not all people in here arguing the case for the Palestinians accept both of these positions as being true.

I have made the point in here a couple of times, but this conflation is dangerous. You possibly might not have conflated the two in your head and it might have been a slip in your phrasing, but there will be people who read these things and do conflate the two leading to more people not being able to differentiate between them.

On the one hand this conflation leads to them then taking an anti-Israeli position rather than simply opposing the policies of Israel, which leads to a rise in anti-Semitism. On the other hand it leaves us in a position where those responsible for these policies and actions can make noises about anti-Semitism in order to stifle opposition, the start of a slippery slope to authoritarianism.

I just wanted to bump this exchange as I think is as relevant now, nearly two months on, as it was then.

It is incredibly important not to conflate the Israeli people with the current far-right regime controlling the Israeli government (and far-right zealots currently occupying prominent roles within the IDF, Mossad, and Shin Bet), or criticism for the government’s actions and policies with criticism of Jewish people.

Antisemitism is a real and pervasive threat today, which I have spoken to from experience in this thread. But it has also become a means for far-right entities, Kahanists, and extremist Zionists, among other malicious actors, to shutdown dissent and delegitimise entities scrutinising their ideology and the very real outcomes of it.

And, as of late, it has been a means of dismissing assertions that the far-right Israeli regime is committing acts of genocide in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as merely antisemitism.

Strawman arguments accusing those criticising the far-right Israeli regime of sympathising with Hamas have also been posted. As have comments conflating all Palestinians with Hamas, Fatah, PIJ, etc., which are equally troubling. Some have even shared truly frightening comments suggesting that many other nations have committed atrocities over the course of human history so why should Israel be expected not to do so.

There have been a few that have come in here and actually posted antisemitic and anti-Palestinian nonsense—they have been dealt with and are no longer participating. And anyone that does in the future will be duly handled, as well.

I implore everyone to be sure to keep separate the people writ-large from the governing, military, or terrorist entities. And not to succumb to talking points that extremists on both sides would welcome.
 
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Not even being reported on our Main news channels. Exactly what I was saying yesterday about a fuckin kitchen tile being damaged because of the drone attack on an Israeli house got a full BBC segment. 12 children slaughtered is not news anymore.
Because we are on the side of evil.
Not me. Not in my name or support. In fact I boycott everything isreali that I can, which isnt much but businesses providing service to that country will not get my business.
 
Had a couple of interesting conversations with two Iranians over the last couple days. Yesterday i went for Physio and she's an Iranian who left 25yrs ago. She tells me she hasn't gone back since 2006 because every time she does, she's sent to jail because she was part of protesting when she was in University against the government to be given more freedoms and rights. She told me that Iran doesn't care about Palestine, Israel or anyone else and are just out for their own interests. The other Iranian i spoke to regularly goes home with no issues, he says that Iran as a sovereign state retaliated to Israel. As for Palestine, he says Iran are the only country that are helping them through giving them arms and training them. Shows, in a microcosm, how complex it is in the middle east. Palestine is on it's own, as far as i can see.
 

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