Middle East Conflict

[BayernMan]

 

[FlemishDuck]

A matter of contention was generated on the thread "Uk far right trouble" - the thread about riots in the UK on a unrelated topic

UK far right trouble

It’s a shame Frothy’s frothings have been removed. The responses to them were a great example of where the majority of this forum is at on this subject.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

West Didsblue contentious argument

i know people are justifiably angry at Netanyahu’s government but use of the word Zionist is inflammatory because to most Jews it simply means support for Israel’s right to exist and is not related to support for Israeli government actions in Gaza and the West Bank.

My main counterargument to that principle:

Also take note that in practice Zionism can stand for a expanionist policy of the Jewish state. It can go further than to just have "some land to call its own", to an extend of claiming "even more" land to its own under the same ideal. This is because there is no fixed definition of the size of the Jewish homeland (and just a 1 square kilometer microstate wouldnt do right?) and there is an active policy of Jewish settlement outside the recognized borders of Israel.

Hence my argument is that zionism is not restricted solely to the belief that the Jewish people should have "a homeland", its also an ideoligy that is used for the expansionism of the Jewish state.

Feel free to discuss

 

[PragueBlue]

Dictionary defines it as:

A movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

 

[SWP's back]

Dictionary defines it as:

A movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

Yeah I understand both views but tend to side with West Dids here. I’m a Zionist in that I believe in Israel’s right to exist but I hate their government and believe Palestine should have its own state.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Dictionary defines it as:

A movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

I think the problem, certaintly for what regards Netanyahu's regime, is that it results in state support of Jewish colonization of Palestinian lands outside its borders. As such it seems a logical extension to the Zionist ideal of making Palestine a Jewish homeland.

As it was originally defined By Herzels movement, was there ever a limit to it's expansion? Purely in theory a microstate is a homeland and might do for that stated goal, but what we have in practice is a form of colonization that is practically wholly replacing he population makeup of a region trough conflict. And there is a very conscious policy to this that is an extension of the interest of the established Jewish state, one that aims to expand the jewish state and make regions Jewish. Should i really accept that for the matter even of contemporary debates "thats not Zionism"? That is not an extension of the interrests behind he establishment of a Jewish state?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Humans are inherently lazy and I think a lot on social media use the term Zionism meaning anti the Israeli government, rather than typing out anti-Israeli government every time in discussions.

There are some that use the term nefariously, but it’d be hard to put a percentage to that.

There probably needs to be another term coined to mean anti-Israeli government to remove the need for this debate to be had perpetually.

 

[west didsblue]

Please remove my name from the thread title.

The clear definition of Zionism was not relevant to the point I made on the other thread and a discussion about its definition is not something I wish to participate in because it’s been done before and it will end up going round in circles.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Did he win Time's **** Of The Year award, or something,?

 

[dronefromsector7G]

Barm

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Barm

We’ve completely fucking blown it.