Middle East Conflict

[SebastianBlue]

Unfortunately, this is a fallout of the devastating intifada where many thousands of Israelis were killed by suicide bombings.
Very important to add that context so that people don't think Israel were just being mean.

I am not looking to understate the impact of the intifadas on the course of Israeli history—though, an apartheid is an apartheid—but from where are you getting “many thousands of Israelis were killed by suicide bombings” in the first and second intifadas?

The best estimates I have seen have about 1,250 Israelis (civilians and soldiers) killed in the intifadas, and around 30,000 total in conflicts and terrorism in the entire existence of Israel. That is far, far too many, but nowhere near the number you have implied. It is also important to note that significantly more Palestinian civilians and militants have been killed since 1948.

Did you mean casualties?

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Unfortunately, this is a fallout of the devastating intifada where many thousands of Israelis were killed by suicide bombings.
Very important to add that context so that people don't think Israel were just being mean.

“Many thousands” ? More like 1500 combined during both intifadas and just like Oct 7th they didn’t happen in a vacuum.

 

[BayernMan]

 

[Pelegrinni]

Yeah we wouldn't want people to get that impression would we .... I mean there is currently a both sides debate going on in Israeli society over the rights of military guards to rape Palestinian prisoners.
Not sure you are getting the toothpaste back in the tube on the issue of "being mean".

I am not talking about any other issues.

The point remains that when people mention the wall and check points, they often leave out the reason for setting up these obstacles. Some do this deliberately to make Israel look bad.

Some people are often quick to hold Israel accountable but never Hamas.
Very few are interested in the thousands of Palestinians who have lost their jobs working in Israel to feed their families.
Very few are talking about the Palestinians who have lost their homes because of this senseless war started by Hamas on October 7.

If you listen to the Palestinians themselves, they are broadly divided into two camps:

1) Those who just want to live in peace side by side with Israel
2) Those who prefer the one state solution established upon the destruction of the state of Israel.

Unfortunately, 2 above are the loudest and the most powerful. Hence, this conflict will continue for many generations.
I must add that if Israel were an Arab country, they would have wiped out the Palestinians. Saddam and Assad are prime example.

My personal view is for both peoples to live in peace side by side.

 

[Pelegrinni]

“Many thousands” ? More like 1500 combined during both intifadas and just like Oct 7th they didn’t happen in a vacuum.

Regardless of the numbers, anyone who claims to care about the Palestinians would campaign for both peoples to live in peace side by side because Israel is going no where.

Every time I listen to people debate this issue, very few seem to care for the suffering Palestinians. The majority are only interested in Jew hate.

Hindus are being massacred in Bangladesh today but nobody cares. If the Jews were involved, this would have been front page news.

 

[BayernMan]

Only decent Israeli politician.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Regardless of the numbers, anyone who claims to care about the Palestinians would campaign for both peoples to live in peace side by side because Israel is going no where.

Every time I listen to people debate this issue, very few seem to care for the suffering Palestinians. The majority are only interested in Jew hate.

Hindus are being massacred in Bangladesh today but nobody cares. If the Jews were involved, this would have been front page news.

Are you Jewish?

If not, I would be careful using the term “Jews” so liberally.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Has colonisation not been going on since the foundation of the state?
This ‘Zionist’ right wing government may have hijacked a term but what does it matter. It’s clear to most, what is going on.

I have purposely, for my own sanity, stayed out of this thread and this debate, because I find it highly emotive and cannot understand how, otherwise very intelligent and compassionate people in here, can defend what seems clear to me. This is pure opportunism by Netanyahu and his support.
It seems to have nothing to do with hostage release. As long as there are hostages he can justify anything he likes.
I don’t believe they give a damn about the hostages. They are at best, collateral damage and martyrs.

I’ll say no more, but what is happening and what possibly is about to happen is an abomination that the West for political self interest, allows.

I've also stayed out of the thread for the same reason and it's hard to disagree with much in this post. This situation is now just about Netanyahu and his grip on power. I very much doubt the West can do much.

I can't understand how some seemingly intelligent left-leaning posters can seemingly have common cause with a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist group, who are homophobic, undemocratic, don't allow freedom of expression or religion, treat women as second-class citizens, and who use the citizens they supposedly represent as human shields.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I've also stayed out of the thread for the same reason and it's hard to disagree with much in this post. This situation is now just about Netanyahu and his grip on power. I very much doubt the West can do much.

I can't understand how some seemingly intelligent left-leaning posters can seemingly have common cause with a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist group, who are homophobic, undemocratic, don't allow freedom of expression or religion, treat women as second-class citizens, and who use the citizens they supposedly represent as human shields.

Who in the thread do you think have common cause with Hamas?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I've also stayed out of the thread for the same reason and it's hard to disagree with much in this post. This situation is now just about Netanyahu and his grip on power. I very much doubt the West can do much.

I can't understand how some seemingly intelligent left-leaning posters can seemingly have common cause with a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist group, who are homophobic, undemocratic, don't allow freedom of expression or religion, treat women as second-class citizens, and who use the citizens they supposedly represent as human shields.

You won’t find me defending any religion whether extremist or not.
I wrote elsewhere but I’ll state it here again. Religion is a unifying theme locally in a community but ultimately is a fallacy that will destroy us globally.

Take your pick of any religion you like.