Middle East Conflict

The reason why i commented on West Didsblue, is that he misquoted his sources and redfined Zionism for the purpose of defending a misquantification of zionist support in society.
I clarified exactly what I meant one post later because I recognised that the original post could have been open to misinterpretation. However it was only ever a minor point as far as the reason for the post was concerned. Why you’ve blown it up into a huge discussion has no relevance to the actual point I was making which you have persistently ignored. I have no interest in any further engagement with you if you can’t even accept that a clearly antisemitic poster is what it is in spite of me patiently explaining why on a number of occasions.
 
I clarified exactly what I meant one post later because I recognised that the original post could have been open to misinterpretation.

But its exactly your clarification which was contentious too.

You brought up a link. In that link 90% of the brittish jews claimed that they support the existance of the Jewish state, and 59% of the brittish jews self described as zionists.

You made the claim, prior to providing that link, that 90% of all jews are zionists, and then refered to that link to support that claim.

I then reacted to you, saying that the source didnt support the claims you made. You then made an argument in which you re-defined zionism for the purpose of supporting your claim. You argued that supporting the existance of Israel was an equivalance to the term zionism, and that hence 90% of the people there were zionists irrespective in that only 59% self described as zionists.

So i thought that your counter argument or "clarification", only led to a more contentious claim. I thoughtyou should be challanged on that claim, but since it was off topic to begin with in that thread i expessiongly asked you to continue the debate via private messages. You did not, you continued to post about that off topic matter on a thread where it didnt belng in a fashion in which it remained contentious. I then argued you should bring the argument elsewhere, by suggesting you create a thread on the matter of contention, which you also refused.

Maybe it would have been simpler if you just admitted that it was a pretty silly argument you made.


However it was only ever a minor point as far as the reason for the post was concerned. Why you’ve blown it up into a huge discussion

funny that you argue im blowing it up but you yourself dont seem to be doing much to deflating it.

Frankly i thought it could have been an interesting discussion, if discussed in the right manner, but it seems that it illicits a lot of reactions that are of a questionable rhetorical nature to me.

has no relevance to the actual point I was making which you have persistently ignored. I have no interest in any further engagement with you if you can’t even accept that a clearly antisemitic poster is what it is in spite of me patiently explaining why on a number of occasions.

You claimed that poster advocated for removing 30.000 people, i asked you where that poster said so much and you "dared to refuse" to answer me. Not a little Hyperbole that was?
 

Well i mean you first asked me to post it in another thread which i did


I then started a debate on the understanding of the word zionism. Because you redefined zionism for the purpose of your argument.
 
Well i mean you first asked me to post it in another thread which i did


I then started a debate on the understanding of the word zionism. Because you redefined zionism for the purpose of your argument.
I have no idea what you’re on about, and you are wilfully ignoring every clarification I’ve made whilst adding layer upon layer of obfuscation.
I’m out.
 
No doubt a massive oversimplification on my part, but I’d say the Irish/English troubles were rooted in politics/governance.

I’d say the Arab/Israeli troubles are rooted in core religious beliefs and the subsequent ‘god given rights’ and calls to annihilation therein.

Politics can resolve the first one. Not sure how the second one gets resolved absent one of the groups being annihilated.
Over generalization here too but I think you are right. For me the North was never about religion, but instead about inequality and revenge. Regarding the Arab/Israeli conflict religion is much more of a core issue but I wonder if it would remain so if they meaningfully addressed inequality and addressed the need for revenge.
 
Lots of people do use in the way you describe it, the expansionist, settler ideology, but lots of people also use it as blanket term for Jews in general, but you also have lots of Jewish people who consider themselves Zionists but disagree with the eradication of the Palestinian state/people, and you have Jewish people who consider themselves Zionists and do agree with the eradication of the Palestinian state/people.

I have no interrest in misuse of terms. It's not because matters are complex, that we are going to solve it trough simplistic thought imho, well thats a general aproach i have to such contentious terms like Zionism. And observably contentious seems to be what it is and why it elicits varied arguments and emotions when i bring it up, i though i read another poster putting that in part to various usage in propaganda and anti-propaganda and i certainty dont disagree with that notion that its "misused" often, so i guess people take very guarded stances in such discussion.

Here i am, kinda not "feeling it" in the sense that i would be doing something wrong, because i'm a humanist and pacifist and very tolerant plus very open to rational discourse and empirical arguments. The way West Didsblue presented Zionism (aka, defined as simply supporting the existence of a Jewish homeland) kinda explicitly cut expansionism as a tenet from the ideology. I was willing to make a philosophical argument as to why we should logically attribute expansionism as a tenet to an ideal that proposes to create a homeland trough colonization of an already occupied area. Im still willing to discuss this, in a respectful manner, with anyone who wishes so. Thing is, i do take an interest in linguistics and "political language", so there is also that.
 
Last edited:

Unfortunately, this is a fallout of the devastating intifada where many thousands of Israelis were killed by suicide bombings.
Very important to add that context so that people don't think Israel were just being mean.
 
Unfortunately, this is a fallout of the devastating intifada where many thousands of Israelis were killed by suicide bombings.
Very important to add that context so that people don't think Israel were just being mean.
Yeah we wouldn't want people to get that impression would we .... I mean there is currently a both sides debate going on in Israeli society over the rights of military guards to rape Palestinian prisoners.
Not sure you are getting the toothpaste back in the tube on the issue of "being mean".
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.