trueblue1972
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My thoughts entirely
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Middle East Conflict
- Thread starter The blue phantom
- Start date
DTKOAG
Well-Known Member
The FA should not even get Involved in this.Folk already up in arms that the FA have decided the Minutes silence should be for both Israelis & Palestinians.
View attachment 95742
BlueHammer85
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Wonder how likely it is the US and Iran clashes over this.
World just get scarier by the day. Just need China to go into Taiwan now for all hell to break loose and melt this all into a huge world-war I'm afraid. Hopefully people with way more insight can calm me down
best to try and limit how much you read and see into all this, i know that's hard.
You can't control any of this so can only focus on you and your close ones.
I had mad anxiety when Covid hit the news and after that i promised myself never to get worried about stuff outside my control.
BlueHammer85
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The FA should not even get Involved in this.
they can't win whatever they do.
Ducado
Well-Known Member
But that statement is not true, many times they have turned down offers of a large state but have been pressured not to accept by various Arab states!
This is a good and interesting watch from the early 70's!
Just because for various reasons a solution has not be found does not make the root cause of the issue false, things change, attitudes change, geo politics change
Ducado
Well-Known Member
Well said, it should be the top of the agenda to get this mess sorted out once and for all, it's a gapping wound that has been allowed to fester for far too longNo, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.
Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.
It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.
Brightwell’s left peg
Well-Known Member
I was simply noting ‘The root cause’ of this isn’t what Ducado stated it was. We’re now looking at the latest ‘branch’ of disagreement over hundreds/thousands of years of disagreements stemming from the root cause, which is religion and a belief in a promised land. Wasn’t meant to be any more than that. Religion is still the root of this dispute, irrespective of how many branches that root grew. Get rid of religious doctrine/beliefs, and we might have a chance.No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.
Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.
It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.
trueblue1972
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More chance if the rags winning the league this seasonI was simply noting ‘The root cause’ of this isn’t what Ducado stated it was. We’re now looking at the latest ‘branch’ of disagreement over hundreds/thousands of years of disagreements stemming from the root cause, which is religion and a belief in a promised land. Wasn’t meant to be any more than that. Religion is still the root of this dispute, irrespective of how many branches that root grew. Get rid of religious doctrine/beliefs, and we might have a chance.
A two-state solution is the only solution, until everyone accepts that then it'll just carry on. It requires negotiation away from whatever lines were drawn in the sand in the past, that's the only way to achieve peace. A state of Palestine should exist alongside a State of Israel.No, we need to accept that Israel and Palestine of the modern era are two equally established and recognised nations, as it was with the Oslo Accords, and not establish sovereign borders or policies based on religious texts. All this talk of "ancient lands" and "rightful claims" are rendered hollow and worthless when people are being killed over it. It's also pointless because, those who like it or not, MODERN DAY Israel and Israelis are a generationally established group in the Middle East with every right to state where their home is.
Modern day Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Arguing over "whose land it is" is irrelevent in the modern era as both groups have established equal claims to their homes. If the question is where are these borders established to determine which part is Israel and what part is Palestine, groups like Hamas, which DON'T even recognise Israel in their future negotiations, are a huge part of the problem in establishing lasting peace.
It's clear now that a one-state shared governing idea has long since been rejected, so only a two state solution can work. Hamas does not believe in this and should be removed from Palestine's peaceful future. If Netenyahu's Government also cannot accept a free, self-governing and independent Palestine, they need to go too. Whether this can be decided amongst themselves or by the International Community remains to be seen, but Hamas's recent actions have allowed anger and hatred to determine the current narrative, and we can only hope things calm down enough so that level headed personalities from both sides can rescue a peace which must include the continued existance of both Palestine and Israel.
The biggest obstacle as you say to a two-state solution is religion, fundamentally that's what shapes everything in this conflict. Religion is literally what defines the lands and borders from a political policy view but from a historical view you could go back thousands of years if you really wanted to.
Doing it like that is pretty stupid though. I mean look at the UK, who actually does 'British' land belong to? The Crown technically owns all land now but that history only goes back what 1000 years? What about the Vikings, Romans or even the French? Who is it really if we look at it from a whole historical perspective?
This is why it's really stupid for some people to consider land in terms of religious and historical ownership because then it is neither Palestinian nor Israeli land. This is especially true for ownership within the last century which is essentially just collateral of the collapse of the British empire.
There is an election coming up after allNot once have I said that Israel should not respond and sit back, but organisations like Hamas are only created out of hopelessness and poverty
As for the BLM, they’ve always been this way. If you take the Marxist mentally of tearing down modern systems you have to do what they posted on Twitter.