Middle East Conflict

The blue phantom said:
They wouldn't have snipers taking the side of a child's head off, I'm fairly confident of that.
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No of course not but this is precisely why a baby was taken there, collateral is not a problem for Hamas and it was actually the objective.

When you can't fire first it is acceptable for them to put an innocent in the way and then cry wolf to justify themselves.

They are both just as bad as each other when given the opportunity.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Hamas have said that most of the people shot were their members or members of Islamic Jihad. That doesn't necessarily excuse what the IDF did but it does prove to a very large degree that Hamas knew exactly what they were doing.
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If that's the case -for the ones that were - good riddance.
 
inbetween said:
Ask yourself this, as you have said an 8 month old baby was killed at this demonstration. What do you think an 8 month old baby is doing at a violent demonstration where only a fence stands between you and a heavily armed army?

There was no diplomatic resolution or whatever to this. The Army has orders to defend the threat to the border and not to go walking in trying to make friends with people who have been ordered to kill Israeli's.

There is no such thing as a 'for the most part' peaceful protest. If a load of people started protesting in London and a handful were throwing molotovs, burning shops, jumping over the fence into Buckingham Palace and there were 50+ terrorists amongst their ranks... What do you seriously think the police would do to that protest?????
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So because an 8 month old baby is in a 'violent' protest 100m, likely 200m away from the wall, you decide to kill the baby? How violent can a mother holding a baby get?

Ok.
 
inbetween said:
No of course not but this is precisely why a baby was taken there, collateral is not a problem for Hamas and it was actually the objective.

When you can't fire first it is acceptable for them to put an innocent in the way and then cry wolf to justify themselves.

They are both just as bad as each other when given the opportunity.
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Do you think Hamas has such a stranglehold on the protestors? Like I said, most who are blaming the Palestinians being in the protest have this unquestioned belief that they are all brainwashed gullible people. Too much watching movies but never even spoken with an actual Palestinian or step foot in the area.

This is the real world. These are people who are protesting for their own freedom and dignity. I find it unbelievable that people a thousand miles from the wall know much more of what Palestinians think than the Palestinians themselves.

They dot want to attack Israel, they are attacking the conditions that they are living in. They want their children to go to school, study and get a job. They can't get a job. They want to be able to go to the emergency room whenever they have a stomach bug or a high fever. They can't do that when the hospitals are made redundant because the generators have no power. They want to be able to present papers in conferences abroad, or take part in holiday tours or go for Haj pilgrimage, but they can't do that because all they have are travel documents and a one in ten chance of having their travel approved. And even when they are approved, it can be withdrawn the next day because the borders decide to close. They want a McDonalds, they want to have a football league. They want vaccinations.

That's what they want. And to think that someone who hasn't gone through what they have gone through say that they are Hamas puppets, it is really mind boggling. If you've ever been to MRI, whythenshawe, Salford A&E just look at the kinds of people wanting to see the doctors and how much in suffering some of them are. Now think about Palestinians having the same illnesses, but having no A&E or surgery to go to. Lift the blockade, provide hospitals with fuel and power, provide schools with clean water. Token gestures like sending medical supplies after shooting them is like a husband who abused his wife and leaving flowers on her grave.
 
shaiomarali said:
So because an 8 month old baby is in a 'violent' protest 100m, likely 200m away from the wall, you decide to kill the baby? How violent can a mother holding a baby get?

Ok.
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No-one decided to kill a baby. If you read what happened a drone fired tear gas which was apparently the cause of death.

A Gazan doctor has disputed this and blamed it on something completely different but anyway I'll ask again, do you think it is appropriate for a baby to be at this protest? There were numerous children also there, why do you think that is?

Again, Hamas are well known for their use of human shields and that is the point. For every innocent it has to be considered that there are also terrorists there who could of been armed and far more capable of doing a bit more damage.

Hamas has already said that terrorists are amongst the dead so it just isn't true that there was a nice little peaceful protest going on with babies present etc and the Israeli Army just opened fire on them all as you suggest.
 
inbetween said:
No-one decided to kill a baby. If you read what happened a drone fired tear gas which was apparently the cause of death.

A Gazan doctor has disputed this and blamed it on something completely different but anyway I'll ask again, do you think it is appropriate for a baby to be at this protest? There were numerous children also there, why do you think that is?

Again, Hamas are well known for their use of human shields and that is the point. For every innocent it has to be considered that there are also terrorists there who could of been armed and far more capable of doing a bit more damage.

Hamas has already said that terrorists are amongst the dead so it just isn't true that there was a nice little peaceful protest going on with babies present etc and the Israeli Army just opened fire on them all as you suggest.
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The moment you attack a tented Palestinian camp is the moment you decide to harm those inside. Do you have this picture in your mind that the mother was running around throwing stones in one hand while holding her baby in another? The baby was asleep in a tent. But no, you assume that she was brought to the protest. That's what's wrong with those who argue for the culpability of Palestinians. Before you look into the circumstance you already had a preconceived belief that the protest was altogether violent and that it was the mother's fault.
 
shaiomarali said:
The moment you attack a tented Palestinian camp is the moment you decide to harm those inside. Do you have this picture in your mind that the mother was running around throwing stones in one hand while holding her baby in another? The baby was asleep in a tent. But no, you assume that she was brought to the protest. That's what's wrong with those who argue for the culpability of Palestinians. Before you look into the circumstance you already had a preconceived belief that the protest was altogether violent and that it was the mother's fault.
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Don’t bother, you won’t get through.
 
Armaan said:
Don’t bother, you won’t get through.
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For some of these there is absolutely nothing that Israel could do that would make them reconsider their support. They’d defend Israel if they used the Samson Option and killed millions of people here or anywhere else. Whether they choose to admit it or not, in their hearts they believe that the life of a Jew in Israel is worth more than the life of a Palestinian.
 
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