Middle East Conflict

[Postman Pep]

Hezbullah are nothing like Hama they are not a Palestinian group they were born out of the bloody Israeli occupation of South Lebanon an action some what ironical in that it created the most powerful non state army in the world, you see violence begats violence, they don’t really go. In for what we call terrorist actions anymore

I suppose the ultimate irony is that the 1982 invasion was named 'Operation Peace for Galilee. The initial aim was to rid South Lebanon of the PLO who were firing rockets across the border... yet when they finally withdrew 18 years later they found themselves with a bigger bogeyman..... and no peace for Galilee.

There will never be a military solution to this conflict.

 

[Vic]

Complete rubbish? I was 6,000 out.

There was no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in 1839 or 1880. There wasn’t even a people called Palestinians then. They were just Arabs in the Ottoman Empire.

Are you really arguing that people living in Palestine were just "people of Palestine" rather than Palestinians? Or that an imperial power called the area something else? (See "Rhodesia".)

Actually, the phrase "just Arabs" says a lot.

Palestine or the Holy Land Historical Reproduction Map c.1818

Small size version of a cloth-backed reproduction by Old Folding Maps of a “Historical map of Palestine (or the) Holy Land, drawn by J.T. Assheton around 1818, engraved by Sidney Hall and published in London by Samuel Leigh corrected to 1825”. The map has Damascus at the top and stretches to the...

www.stanfords.co.uk

 

[Vic]

When you said the people who were to blame were those who commited the atrocities, following as it did from you repeatedly dodging the question as to whether the Israeli authorities had contributed to what happened. You were perfectly at liberty to say that they had, but declined to.

I tell you what, I’ll ask it again: do you think the failures in Israeli security were a contributory factor in the atrocities? And if so, do they bear any responsibility?

This is a rather fruitless argument. Atrocities were committed. The Israeli government failed to prevent it (and that's obviously the view of many Israelis). Someone mentioned "victim blaming" and the argument went to pot.

 

[Postman Pep]

 

[Ducado]

Here’s something that’s starting to be picked up, you can’t keep an army especially if the main part is made up of reserves in a constant state of readiness to go, for very long, they bored and nervous the longer the wait to go in

It does look like the US has started to get nervous about this spreading the last thing they need is to be embroiled in another unwinable war in the Middle East, I think they are starting to realise they are dancing to Irans tune, because that is what they want, Bidens green light has already lost the heart and minds of the Arab street and his hug with Bibi

This is why cool heads are needed

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Someone mentioned "victim blaming" and the argument went to pot.

Yes they did.

 

[bluethrunthru]

This is what I meant about Israel burning its international goodwill - the UN does not exist to take sides - i thought the Sec Gen set out a fair case today - if Israel ain't happy why don't they leave? They don't get to fire and hire the Sec Gen

 

[Ducado]

This is what I meant about Israel burning its international goodwill - the UN does not exist to take sides - i thought the Sec Gen set out a fair case today - if Israel ain't happy why don't they leave? They don't get to fire and hire the Sec Gen

I’ve said before, they have appalling PR

 

[domalino]

This is what I meant about Israel burning its international goodwill - the UN does not exist to take sides - i thought the Sec Gen set out a fair case today - if Israel ain't happy why don't they leave? They don't get to fire and hire the Sec Gen

This is the speech they want him fired for -

At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles -- starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.​

​

I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel.​

​

Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians – or the launching of rockets against civilian targets.​

​

All hostages must be treated humanely and released immediately and without conditions. I respectfully note the presence among us of members of their families.​

​

Excellencies,​

​

It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum.​

​

The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.​

​

They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.​

​

But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.​

​

Excellencies,​

​

Even war has rules.​

​

We must demand that all parties uphold and respect their obligations under international humanitarian law; take constant care in the conduct of military operations to spare civilians; and respect and protect hospitals and respect the inviolability of UN facilities which today are sheltering more than 600,000 Palestinians.​

​

The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces, the level of civilian casualties, and the wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming.​

​

I mourn and honour the dozens of UN colleagues working for UNRWA - sadly, at least 35 and counting - killed in the bombardment of Gaza over the last two weeks.​

​

I owe to their families my condemnation of these and many other similar killings.​

​

The protection of civilians is paramount in any armed conflict.​

​

Protecting civilians can never mean using them as human shields.​

​

Protecting civilians does not mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to the south, where there is no shelter, no food, no water, no medicine and no fuel, and then continuing to bomb the south itself.​

Secretary-General's remarks to the Security Council - on the Middle East [as delivered] | United Nations Secretary-General

www.un.org

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

This is the speech they want him fired for -

At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles -- starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.​

​

I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel.​

​

Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians – or the launching of rockets against civilian targets.​

​

All hostages must be treated humanely and released immediately and without conditions. I respectfully note the presence among us of members of their families.​

​

Excellencies,​

​

It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum.​

​

The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.​

​

They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.​

​

But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.​

​

Excellencies,​

​

Even war has rules.​

​

We must demand that all parties uphold and respect their obligations under international humanitarian law; take constant care in the conduct of military operations to spare civilians; and respect and protect hospitals and respect the inviolability of UN facilities which today are sheltering more than 600,000 Palestinians.​

​

The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces, the level of civilian casualties, and the wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming.​

​

I mourn and honour the dozens of UN colleagues working for UNRWA - sadly, at least 35 and counting - killed in the bombardment of Gaza over the last two weeks.​

​

I owe to their families my condemnation of these and many other similar killings.​

​

The protection of civilians is paramount in any armed conflict.​

​

Protecting civilians can never mean using them as human shields.​

​

Protecting civilians does not mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to the south, where there is no shelter, no food, no water, no medicine and no fuel, and then continuing to bomb the south itself.​

Secretary-General's remarks to the Security Council - on the Middle East [as delivered] | United Nations Secretary-General

www.un.org

There’s fuck all to disagree with what he’s said there.