Middle East Conflict

Palerider said:
It cannot be long now before the Palestinians (and Pro Palestinian marchers) turn against the evil repression of Hamas whose brutal inhumane massacre on October 7th has brought so much suffering to their own people.
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You’ll next be posting there is no place known as Palestine.
 
Palerider said:
It cannot be long now before the Palestinians (and Pro Palestinian marchers) turn against the evil repression of Hamas whose brutal inhumane massacre on October 7th has brought so much suffering to their own people.
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I wouldn't hold out too much hope. Hamas have been torturing and sometimes murdering their political opponents since they took power in 2006. Many have fled Gaza, those that remain are the victims of constant abuse. Hamas have replaced all Imams with their own creating a network of control and fear, and all but eradicated any political opposition within Gaza. Hamas must be eradicated by external forces, only then will the people of Gaza be able to determine their own future.
 
LesBleuMiserable said:
You’ll next be posting there is no place known as Palestine.
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No, I think you will find you posted that.

I just want the two of them to get on with their lives without killing each other. If that means joining Israel and Palestine together and calling it the "wonderful land of Oz" then I am all for it. More realistically it means giving each of the combatants a piece of land to be governed by themselves and called whatever they fucking like!
 
Palerider said:
You need to think this through. Stating that you want to wipe out an entire people is genocide. Now, I suppose, it's a free world and you are entitled to be honest with your support of wiping out Israel but what position does that leave Israel in? In any 'game' both sides tend to play by the same rules. If your rules are the total removal of Israel from the planet then do not complain if Israel want to play by the same rules.
I think the 'where do regular people stand' question is really good. There is a general 20/80 rule that holds in so many cases. 80% of all problems are caused by 20% of the people (the extremists). So get rid of the extremists (those who want genocide) on both sides and the 'regular' 80% would live quite normal, not perfect, relatively peaceful lives.
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Massively missing the point. Deliberately?
 
blueinsa said:
Maybe post the full context to those killings and what had happened that led to them and to suggest the Irgun became the IDF is laughable but entirely predictable given your obvious stance on all things Israeli.
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So now you're supporting Zionist terrorists' hostage-taking of British troops? Is that typical of your stance?
 
Palerider said:
Is another very good question.
It has probably never, ever been done. But it does lead onto another question,
"If Palestine cannot remove genocide loving terrorists then who will?"

What is needed is for the Palestinian side to accept today's reality and not hark back to 70 years ago arguments. They have lost that 70 year old argument and must accept the Israelis and their nuclear weapons are going nowhere. Thousands of Palestinian lives are being lost fighting a battle long ago lost. Accepting the Israelis have a right to live will mean that millions and millions will support fairly negotiated borders, not supporting Israel has a right to exist means millions and millions sympathise with Israel. For fucks sake how hard can it be to live without wanting your neighbours dead?
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Another fan of "might is right".
 
blueish swede said:
I wouldn't hold out too much hope. Hamas have been torturing and sometimes murdering their political opponents since they took power in 2006. Many have fled Gaza, those that remain are the victims of constant abuse. Hamas have replaced all Imams with their own creating a network of control and fear, and all but eradicated any political opposition within Gaza. Hamas must be eradicated by external forces, only then will the people of Gaza be able to determine their own future.
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If there are any left when the external forces have done their eradicating. "In order to save the people of Gaza we had to destroy them."
 
Palerider said:
No, I think you will find you posted that.

I just want the two of them to get on with their lives without killing each other. If that means joining Israel and Palestine together and calling it the "wonderful land of Oz" then I am all for it. More realistically it means giving each of the combatants a piece of land to be governed by themselves and called whatever they fucking like!
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Well, at least we know now that you're not Netanyahu with an alias.
 
That's the kind of action I wish you saw more of in Russia. I know the stakes are higher in Russia given how they treat protesters but public action is the only way to stop these extremist regimes. Hopefully they get what they want and more moderate people come into power.
 
Irwell said:
That's the kind of action I wish you saw more of in Russia. I know the stakes are higher in Russia given how they treat protesters but public action is the only way to stop these extremist regimes. Hopefully they get what they want and more moderate people come into power.
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I agree.

Optimistically and idealistically, this is the most favourable political outcome, to oust the extremist PM. All of my Jewish connections, as left-wings and moderates in Israel and internationally, are demanding a more pacifist cabinet as well.

However, the current remains in power because as long as he is PM, his personal crime trials (corruption, bribery, fraud, breach of trust) will remain delayed indefinitely. And for him to remain in power is to gain support from the more influential and authoritarian right-wing and extremist factions. Smotrich, Ben Gvir, the MKs. Tit for tat.

The reality is not clear-cut. The last PM who turned moderate and left-wing for a two-state solution, was assassinated by extremist zionists. Yitzhak Rabin.

Yitzhak Rabin was trained since young as a Haganah (pre-IDF) and then after as Palmach (pre-IDF). But during his PM he saw the light and turned left-wing. He made peace agreements with Jordan, and then Palestine for a two-state solution. For the two-state solution, he made occupied settlements illegal for Israel, demanded the illegal settlers of vacating the land where Palestinians are the rightful owners, and revert the Israel Palestine two-state solution as per the Oslo Accord, which for the West Bank is the expansion of 300-400% the size of the current Palestinian West Bank that is today.

The zionists then assassinated Yitzhak Rabin.
 


Right up our street. Not that Pro-Palestine marches is the first time.

Pro-Palestine vs EDL has been ongoing each year. Clashes often under the Picadilly Station bridge, because that’s my go-to walk for quick lunch. Chopstix (no more) or Yo Sushi. Or Pret-a-Manger or Ask Italian nearby.
 
cucumberman said:
I agree.

Optimistically and idealistically, this is the most favourable political outcome, to oust the extremist PM. All of my Jewish connections, as left-wings and moderates in Israel and internationally, are demanding a more pacifist cabinet as well.

However, the current remains in power because as long as he is PM, his personal crime trials (corruption, bribery, fraud, breach of trust) will remain delayed indefinitely. And for him to remain in power is to gain support from the more influential and authoritarian right-wing and extremist factions. Smotrich, Ben Gvir, the MKs. Tit for tat.

The reality is not clear-cut. The last PM who turned moderate and left-wing for a two-state solution, was assassinated by extremist zionists. Yitzhak Rabin.

Yitzhak Rabin was trained since young as a Haganah (pre-IDF) and then after as Palmach (pre-IDF). But during his PM he saw the light and turned left-wing. He made peace agreements with Jordan, and then Palestine for a two-state solution. For the two-state solution, he made occupied settlements illegal for Israel, demanded the illegal settlers of vacating the land where Palestinians are the rightful owners, and revert the Israel Palestine two-state solution as per the Oslo Accord, which for the West Bank is the expansion of 300-400% the size of the current Palestinian West Bank that is today.

The zionists then assassinated Yitzhak Rabin.
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Just before that murder, Netanyahu said: “ It is a mistake to do a deal with the enemy.” Note, Palestinians are the enemy FFS. Rabin’s policy is where it needs to go but I can’t see that happening any time soon. Note: some of the senior Israeli defence officers have criticised the current policy in Gaza.
Has Palestinian sentiment turned against the two state solution?
 
cucumberman said:
I agree.

Optimistically and idealistically, this is the most favourable political outcome, to oust the extremist PM. All of my Jewish connections, as left-wings and moderates in Israel and internationally, are demanding a more pacifist cabinet as well.

However, the current remains in power because as long as he is PM, his personal crime trials (corruption, bribery, fraud, breach of trust) will remain delayed indefinitely. And for him to remain in power is to gain support from the more influential and authoritarian right-wing and extremist factions. Smotrich, Ben Gvir, the MKs. Tit for tat.

The reality is not clear-cut. The last PM who turned moderate and left-wing for a two-state solution, was assassinated by extremist zionists. Yitzhak Rabin.

Yitzhak Rabin was trained since young as a Haganah (pre-IDF) and then after as Palmach (pre-IDF). But during his PM he saw the light and turned left-wing. He made peace agreements with Jordan, and then Palestine for a two-state solution. For the two-state solution, he made occupied settlements illegal for Israel, demanded the illegal settlers of vacating the land where Palestinians are the rightful owners, and revert the Israel Palestine two-state solution as per the Oslo Accord, which for the West Bank is the expansion of 300-400% the size of the current Palestinian West Bank that is today.

The zionists then assassinated Yitzhak Rabin.
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Some seem in denial about this.
 
Don Karleone said:
Owen Jones for all his faults isn't helping to facilitate genocide.
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Israel is at war against enemies that would see them cease to exist.

If Hamas could have killed 30,000 Jews on the 7th October it would have done to the cheers of its supporters wherever they are.

It should give itself up to save the people it’s supposed to represent and protect but it won’t will it?

Anyway……Owen……£3,£5 or £10 a month?
 
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