Middle East Conflict

BlueAnorak said:
I see the Russian authorities are happily allowing Jewish lynch mobs go about their business in Dagastan and elsewhere.

Only a matter of time till it happens elsewhere.
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I don't think it will mate, but some people surely hope so.
 
bluethrunthru said:
why should Egypt take them in? Because everyone else says they should? Isn't Egypt a sovereign state with a right to determine and control its own borders?

Example - something kicks off in NI. We say "well Republicans should just move south into ROI". Scotland and Wales agree with us. Does that mean ROI should just accept refugee's from the North because it suits the rest of us? Housing. Medical and educational provisions. Meh - it suits us if they just leave. The world isn't like that.
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Which is precisely what did happen.
When partition happened originally there was mass migration south and when it kicked of at the start of The Troubles (isn’t that a very British Moniker), there was plenty who fled to safety across the border.
And the exact same thing happened at the perceived injustice. There is absolutely no doubt that paramilitary strikes into The North were organised and executed from groups in The South. It’s part of our history whether we like it or not. We own it. We all own it, North, South, UK and Irish governments. Ignorance of the truth of it isn’t and never was an excuse.

I’ve had my eyes opened in this thread and I’m quite surprised by the attitudes shown by some posters, although in retrospect, I don’t know why. I don’t really know anyone in here so nothing should surprise me.

There’s people firmly entrenched in subjectivity that will not look at the simple justice of a situation and see what is simply unjustifiable from whatever angle you are looking at it.

Humanity? WTF is that I wonder. I’m not religious as I keep saying, but I sometimes feel we’re all on the road to hell.

I look at the history that I openly admitted from the start, that I am learning and trying my best to educate myself on. I fully accept the foundation of the state of Israel as legal in the eyes of the world, I see it’s necessity perhaps in light of what had just happened a people, but whether you want to blame Britain, The US or France, the UN or any others at the end of the WW2, I as a secular person don’t see the logic of any Religion being given a state.
It was always going to be a troublesome solution devised by ex-colonialists that didn’t really have any regard for those they were displacing off the land.

The same can be said about the Northern Ireland solution.
Northern Ireland isn’t Ulster. So, Ulster doesn’t say No. Ulster involves 3 other counties that were left remaining in the Republic after the border was drawn up. And why was the border drawn around the Six counties instead of the Nine?
To maintain a Unionist, Protestant majority. Not quite ethnic cleansing but probably the first bit of gerrymandering that went on up there.

Like I keep saying, that’s part of our joint history and we all own it.
Well the same goes for Israel. We’re told repeatedly in here that it’s the only democracy in the region. Well there is nothing democrat about what is going on in the West Bank or Gaza and Israel very much own that as much as any other parties that you care to post whataboutery for justification, for our consumption in here.

This has the potential to escalate into something global. Even if it doesn’t what’s currently going on isn’t going to end anything. It’s not going to make the area more secure, it’s not going to make life better for millions of people in the area. What you can see happening is the brainwashing of further generations into more and more subjective polarised and increasingly violent callousness towards the others.
 
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Ducado said:
I did not see that, but the Americans do have that power, to a large extent Israel only exists in the modern world due to American patronage, when they fail to restrain them disaster ensues like the War in Lebanon, Israel needs saving from itself
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I don’t doubt there could be more done. They could say Israel can’t use US arms to do it but would kill there arms business so can’t see that happening.


Amid the blasts of countless bombs, the rattle of gunfire shows Israelis are in Gaza – and will stay | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

The taking of the territory has begun with no ceasefire in sight
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Make no mistake – what is, has or will unfold in Gaza is purely an Israeli decision,” the Marine commandant Gen Eric Smith, said, announcing the departure. “[Glynn] was over, he’s back now and he provided his experience to be taken [or] not taken.”
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Username Required said:
Article from Breitbart where the new speaker (Johnson) speaks of the deep religious roots of the alliance between the U.S. and Israel, and the Biblical teaching that those who bless Israel will be blessed themselves.

And there you have it. This is why evangelicals back Israel. The cat is out of the bag now, especially with Netanyahu invoking the bogeyman of Amalek. I'll bet you a million dollars that Johnson's bible (with commentary) is the Scofield Reference Bible.

www.breitbart.com

Mike Johnson to Republican Jewish Coalition: 'We Are Going to Stand Like a Rock' with Israel

Newly-installed Speaker of the House Mike Johnson told the RJC: "We are going to stand like a rock with our friend, and ally, Israel."
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
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Religion. Gotta love it.
 
St.Pauli support said:
Didn't make Biden it clear that the USA is not telling Ukraine how to defend their sovereign state,
and the same goes for Israel?

USA is fighting terror and always will be as a liberal democracy, and are well aware that Hamas are not helpful responsibly protecting the people in Gaza, but quite the opposite.

USA is used to use the term 'collateral damage', as awful as it is. They will try to limit civilian casualties but the target is still taking Hamas/terrorists out of the equation to have a fundament for negotiations leading to the peaceful solution we all wish for.

Who on BM wants Hamas to go on controlling life and rules in Gaza?
If not, how do we get rid of Hamas without force?
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Let’s consider it this way. Before David Ben-Gurion 1948, there was no Hamas no militants.

The early 1900s, Palestine Arabs, Jews and Christians lived in harmonized community. They farmed together, do business together, peaceful and accepting. Christians had one of the oldest churches.

To be protected by the Ottoman empire, the Jews and Christians have to pay jizya, which is tax in exchange of protection. However, payment is not exempted to Arabs, as Arabs too pay what is called zakat. Both jizya and zakat payers are to pay provided that they are able to. They are not obliged to pay if they have income below what they require for daily provision. For those without income or employment that falls below such income, they are not required. A modern example is that if they require £5 a day as daily sustenance, yet they only can save less than half of that sustenance, say £2.49 a day, they are not to pay but rather to receive the tax benefits instead. The rich are to pay taxes, in jizya or zakat, to be provided for the poor.
 
bluethrunthru said:
why should Egypt take them in? Because everyone else says they should? Isn't Egypt a sovereign state with a right to determine and control its own borders?

Example - something kicks off in NI. We say "well Republicans should just move south into ROI". Scotland and Wales agree with us. Does that mean ROI should just accept refugee's from the North because it suits the rest of us? Housing. Medical and educational provisions. Meh - it suits us if they just leave. The world isn't like that.
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It's all a bit black and white, the analysis on here sometimes. Egypt doesn't want to take the Palestinians on its territory, even temporarily, obviously.

But things can change, promises made, carrots dangled, money pumped in. And just because the Egyptians and the Americans are saying publicly that it isn't a solution doesn't mean it won't be being discussed in private.

Again, I am not saying that it will happen or that it would solve anything, but I am trying to understand the Israelis' end-game here. What do you think it is? Other than the elimination of Hamas, which imho, isn't going to happen.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of your NI analogy other than to say it's not a fair analogy.
 
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