Middle East Conflict

[The blue phantom]

Come on, give a response to what I was asking you.

But even you know deep down this will not work. All it will do is make it the biggest recruitment drive for future Hamas Terriost.

 

[The blue phantom]

Even now rather than admitting you are posting the same inane shit you have to try to to spin it as if I've purposely not pulled someone else doing the same thing with opposing views, indirectly you are proving the point as to why this conflict can never end because you and the opposing side could and never will never accept the other point of view of the other unfortunately.

I have no horse in this race so have no bias either way and it's utterly deplorable what is happening to Palestinians right now, I can't imagine being in that situation, why we still think fighting each other over land/religion/opposing politics in 2023 I will never be able to get my head around but until people can act like adults and actually start to understand the other this will go on for the next 100 years, most likely we will have managed to wipe the human race out anyway.

And that's all I've done. There's people on here who don't want a ceasefire and continue to back the Israelis to carry on Bombing as they are convinced thats the only way. Whereas I and many others want them to stop. Surely you should be pulling these folk up who are supporting the current onslaught from the IDF?

 

[Roachy]

But even you know deep down this will not work. All it will do is make it the biggest recruitment drive for future Hamas Terriost.

Just give some alternatives mate.

 

[Dax777]

:) Kudus for your analogies, but I am still not buying that you can blast Hamas out of existence. You can buy some time before they re-group, or worse, something far worse rises from the ashes, but that is no actual solution.

To quote my favorite living philosopher, "there are no solutions here, only tradeoffs." Nothing Israel does would appease Hamas. At some point folks need to understand this.

For Hamas it's not a land dispute. That's just the current pretext nor is it a concern for the lives of the Palestinian Arabs. That's just a 'good for public image in the West' posture. At its core it's an Ideological belief in an Islamic Caliphate. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, their goals are not the same as the Palestinians. Even if they currently have a common foe.

This, the goal is not to blast Hamas out of existence. Rather out of effectiveness. By the way, many said similar about ISI in Iraq. And yet today they have been crushed out of effectiveness and any control. Same has to be done to Hamas.

 

[halfcenturyup]

To quote my favorite living philosopher, "there are no solutions here, only tradeoffs." Nothing Israel does would appease Hamas. At some point folks need to understand this.

For Hamas it's not a land dispute. That's just the current pretext nor is it a concern for the lives of the Palestinian Arabs. That's just a good for public image in the West. At its core it's an Ideological belief in an Islamic Caliphate. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, their goals are not the same as the Palestinians. Even if they currently have a common foe.

The goal is not to blast Hamas out of existence. Rather out of effectiveness. By the way, many said similar about ISI in Iraq. And yet today they have been crushed out of effectiveness and any control. Same has to be done to Hamas.

Effectiveness can be rebuilt when there are more and more followers of an ideology. And more ruthless effectiveness as well. It's all fine unless and until something worse than IS is created instead with the same ideology, or, in this case something worse than Hamas, or, if we are lucky, Hamas just regroups. I suppose, if everyone is very lucky, what you are saying might just happen but, imo, it will be never ending unless the underlying causes are addressed, and that goes all the way to the US and Iran, the Arab States and, of course, Israel.

Just buying time at the cost of thousands of lives seems hugely callous.

Anyway, we don't have to agree on this. :)

 

[inbetween]

And that's all I've done. There's people on here who don't want a ceasefire and continue to back the Israelis to carry on Bombing as they are convinced thats the only way. Whereas I and many others want them to stop. Surely you should be pulling these folk up who are supporting the current onslaught from the IDF?

We all know that a call for ceasefire will come eventually because Hamas hasn't got an endless supply of arms. Is it acceptable to declare a ceasefire on the understanding that Hamas will just rearm and start again?

With any ceasefire all that will happen is Israel will surround the border and monitor everything that goes in and out. The usual people will call this apartheid however then in a few years the same cycle of violence will begin again. The usual people will once again call for a ceasefire. What's the point?

This is perhaps why Israel has decided to eliminate Hamas completely, or at least it's going to try. Gaza needs a calm and sensible regime that is capable of negotiating away from bullets and rockets, that's the only thing that will benefit Palestinians.

 

[Dax777]

Effectiveness can be rebuilt when there are more and more followers of an ideology. And more ruthless effectiveness as well. It's all fine unless and until something worse than IS is created instead with the same ideology, or, in this case something worse than Hamas, or, if we are lucky, Hamas just regroups. I suppose, if everyone is very lucky, what you are saying might just happen but, imo, it will be never ending unless the underlying causes are addressed, and that goes all the way to the US and Iran, the Arab States and, of course, Israel.

Just buying time at the cost of thousands of lives seems hugely callous.

Anyway, we don't have to agree on this. :)

Ok let me take one more stab at this :)

Here is a hypothetical for you: Suppose there is a large group of people (and growing) who believe the world should be run according to their faith beliefs and that group was willing to attempt to achieve its goals by any means necessary and against the wishes of other groups of people no matter what their beliefs were

How would you suggest one resolves this conflict?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

This is perhaps why Israel has decided to eliminate Hamas completely, or at least it's going to try. Gaza needs a calm and sensible regime that is capable of negotiating away from bullets and rockets, that's the only thing that will benefit Palestinians.

You think this is a potential outcome of the Israeli offensive?

That a population, already confined in a tiny space, having had a significant part of that utterly destroyed, losing thousands if their children, will install a calm and sensible regime under the oversight of those who killed their children?

Seems a little optimistic. To put it very, very mildly indeed.

 

[Vic]

The way it works in THIS country not abroad, foreigners can sort their own shit out in their own countries.

We in this country should strengthen the sentences for anti-Semitism to prevent the simmering under the surface bigots that see this as a chance.

That must be the silliest response on the thread. You advocated violence to deal with violence. But only in certain places.

I'm sure the IDF would love to meet Hamas on a battlefield well away from innocent people. Can you say the same for Hamas?

I was wrong. That's the silliest.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Just give some alternatives mate.

Can we put this one to bed.

Targeted strikes against Hamas commanders in Gaza, assassinations of the leaders in Qatar and Iran, and a grown up play towards US/ Iran reconciliation and Arab state/ Israel reconciliation to cut off funding. Oh, and a diplomatic solution to the question of a Palestinian state. You want to make Hamas less effective? Get rid of their leadership and cut off their funding.

(And while I am here, Israel should secure its riskiest borders rather than deploy forces to the West Bank. I still can't believe Hamas could do what they did.)

Strangle Hamas over a number of years instead of an insane attempt to "wipe them out" or (possibly) ethnically cleanse Gaza and make the Palestinians there someone else's problem.

There is always more than one course of action available, but the course chosen says the most about the people who chose it and what their objectives are.