Middle East Conflict

[mancity2012_eamo]

I can say it because all we hear in here is what Israel must do.

We know what they have to do.

What does Hamas and Hezbollah have to do to allow getting around a table worthwhile?

I personally feel both side’s aim is to obliterate the other.
One side supposedly is a democracy, we keep getting told, so perhaps if the population want a different outcome, they vote the present government out.

The other side don’t seem to have that option.

Either way the western world only seems to be supporting one side’s aims, and are turning a blind eye to what seems like an apartheid occupation and appalling treatment.

 

[Bradley82]

I can say it because all we hear in here is what Israel must do.

We know what they have to do.

What does Hamas and Hezbollah have to do to allow getting around a table worthwhile?

YOU KNOW the the current Israeli government doesn't want a two state solution and until they are really serious about achieving that goal they will face hostility and attacks from various states and other actors in the region. (Western governments should stop pretending that Israel wants two states aswell). So there they are again bombing their way to no security at all apart from a limited pause... which never lasts. Hamas conducts futile attacks on them and around we go again. Does this suit Israel to always have a bogeyman in the wings? Someone to blame? I think so. Israel and Hamas must both compromise. Wars only truly end with a political solution. And the sooner they both accept what they both know already, the better. Let's be realistic here, one day Iran or another state in the ME will become a nuclear power then Israel will be forced to compromise. Just look at North Korea. A non-entity of a state globally in every sense except it has nuclear weapons. Kim starts chucking his toys about and hey presto, America starts shitting bricks. The clock ticks on and no status quo lasts forever.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It’s democracy in action, apparently.

Democracy inaction.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I am, as we all are, appalled at the scenes coming out of Gaza.

I just heard the Israel military spokesman saying that the latest bombing in which a building collapsed, killing dozens of innocent Palestinians, "showed that Hamas are using civilians as a human shield".

Well the key word there is fucking shield. What on earth do the Israelis think they are playing at wantonly killing civilians just to try to get at a few Hamas individuals???

Can you imagine a scenario where a madman has killed some people and is holding others hostage and the police just think "fuck the hostages", let's just blow the place up??? It beggars belief that this is happening.

2nd, completely unrelated point, the UK government obviously has our war-time-esque propaganda machine in full swing. Have you noticed how the BBC constantly say that "Hamas - who are recognised as a terrorist organisation - bla bla bla"? It's in every other sentence. "recognised as a terrorist organisation".

We never heard similar of e.g. the Taliban. They were just The Taliban. But no, Hamas are called "Hamas - recognised as a terrorist organisation".

This is obviously political interference in our media by the UK government.

 

[Ducado]

YOU KNOW the the current Israeli government doesn't want a two state solution and until they are really serious about achieving that goal they will face hostility and attacks from various states and other actors in the region. (Western governments should stop pretending that Israel wants two states aswell). So there they are again bombing their way to no security at all apart from a limited pause... which never lasts. Hamas conducts futile attacks on them and around we go again. Does this suit Israel to always have a bogeyman in the wings? Someone to blame? I think so. Israel and Hamas must both compromise. Wars only truly end with a political solution. And the sooner they both accept what they both know already, the better. Let's be realistic here, one day Iran or another state in the ME will become a nuclear power then Israel will be forced to compromise. Just look at North Korea. A non-entity of a state globally in every sense except it has nuclear weapons. Kim starts chucking his toys about and hey presto, America starts shitting bricks. The clock ticks on and no status quo lasts forever.

There is increasing evidence that many people in Israel are starting to see that a just solution is the only solution painful as it might be to some especially on the right , the majority of Israelis don't want to live in a country at constant war, and the wars are getting worse as non state actors get hold of advanced weapons, away from the occupied territories it's quite a European country (in fact it's one of the reasons American Jews don't like living there) it has good welfare and healthcare systems, it's just missing peace and quiet

From an Economic point of view, the market in Palestine would be massive for many Israeli companies, let alone the if the whole region was living in peaceful coexistence

 

[metalblue]

I still dont understand how people are still brushing this quote from Netanyahu under the carpet. It's fairly obvious that Netanyahu and Hamas are two sides of the same problem.

“Those who want to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy, to differentiate between the Palestinians in Gaza and the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria.”

Interestingly the ultra Orthodox Jews who are opposed to the Zionist project and believe in Palestine where Arabs and Jews live as one - are the ones aggravating the settlers situation in the West Bank, perhaps trying to force Hezbollah in to confrontation with the Israeli state to seek their own solutions.

It’s puts the prospects of peace further away when the motives of various factions, within and on either side, are so diametrically opposed to each other.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There is increasing evidence that many people in Israel are starting to see that a just solution is the only solution painful as it might be to some especially on the right , the majority of Israelis don't want to live in a country at constant war, and the wars are getting worse as non state actors get hold of advanced weapons, away from the occupied territories it's quite a European country (in fact it's one of the reasons American Jews don't like living there) it has good welfare and healthcare systems, it's just missing peace and quiet

From an Economic point of view, the market in Palestine would be massive for many Israeli companies, let alone the if the whole region was living in peaceful coexistence

Not to mention that fact, there can never be a military solution. All the Israelis are doing is creating martyrs and fuelling more anger and hatred. It's an entirely futile and counterproductive exercise, if eradication of Hamas is even the objective. I seriously wonder if it is not even that, but rather an excuse for turning the whole of northern Gaza into an uninhabitable buffer zone.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

There is increasing evidence that many people in Israel are starting to see that a just solution is the only solution painful as it might be to some especially on the right , the majority of Israelis don't want to live in a country at constant war, and the wars are getting worse as non state actors get hold of advanced weapons, away from the occupied territories it's quite a European country (in fact it's one of the reasons American Jews don't like living there) it has good welfare and healthcare systems, it's just missing peace and quiet

From an Economic point of view, the market in Palestine would be massive for many Israeli companies, let alone the if the whole region was living in peaceful coexistence

Not sure that the “just solution” statement quiet holds true, given a large portion of Israeli’s have no qualms about the mass slaughter of Gaza’s civilian population:

Some poll results from the Israel Democracy Institute:

To what extent do you think that Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza when planning the next phases of fighting there?

Not at all: Jews 47.5 Arabs 1.2
Not so much: Jews 35.9 Arabs 4.5
Quite a lot: Jews 7.7 Arabs 21.2
Very much: Jews 5.2 Arabs 62.1
Don't know: Jews 3.7 Arabs 11.0

Do you agree or disagree that when undertaking military operations, the IDF should ensure that it is not breaking international laws and rules of war?

Strongly agree: Jews 14.3 Arabs: 71.2
Somewhat agree: Jews 33.6 Arabs 11.4
Somewhat disagree: Jews 26.6 Arabs 3.8
Strongly disagree: Jews 19.2 Arabs 1.1
Don't know: Jews 6.5 Arabs 12.5


Only 12.9% of Jews in Israel in high support of "considering the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population." 47.5% believes they should not be considered at all.

A larger percentage of Jews in Israel strongly support breaking international laws and rules of war (19.2%) than upholding them (14.3%).

 

[Vic]

So two days ago we were told Hamas were preventing foreigners leaving.

Now they're leaving.

Does that mean

1. Someone was lying?

2. Hamas have simply changed their mind?

3. Someone has been negotiating with Hamas?

 

[Username Required]

What do Otzma Yehudit and its leaders stand for?

Part of the party's platform relates to “the enemies of Israel,” and states that “War against the enemies of Israel will be total, without negotiations, without concessions and without compromises.”

www.jpost.com

Otzma Yehudit Party

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

The Platform of Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Strength) – לימין עוצמה יהודית

ozma-yeudit.com

Otzma Yehudit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org