Middle East Conflict

[Prestwich_Blue]

In terms of interests in the area (as opposed to interests back at home) it seems to me they have more to lose from pissing off the Arabs than pissing off the Israelis.

Barring Qatar, the Arabs are keen to see the back of groups like Hamas. They, and other Muslim Brotherhood/Islamist organisations, represent a clear danger to many regimes in the region, including the UAE. They may say one thing publicly but privately they'll be delighted if Hamas largely gets wiped out.

 

[Roachy]

And until they do, they will FOREVER be on the receiving end of terrorist attacks. Staggering that supposedly intelligent Israelis - if e.g. Netanyahu - if he is supposed to be intelligent? - cannot grasp this.

And what is it you think Hamas would like to discuss with Israel?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

 

[domalino]

And what is it you think Hamas would like to discuss with Israel?

It's kind of remarkable how many people who talk like experts on this don't know that Hamas has been fighting for the return to 1967 borders for 10 years now.

Yes, some of their people like to roll out the whole death to Israel thing, but just like various Israeli ministers who have called for the total ethnic cleansing of Gaza and dropping a nuke on Gaza city - that's not the organisation's policy.

And hey, they're a terrorist group so maybe they're unreliable negotiators, but the only people who are opposed to negotiations are people who benefit from the status quo. RIght wing Israelis for whom the end game is annexing Palestine, and the most extreme sectors of Hamas who just want the war machine to roll on and convert another generation or 2 to their cause.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Yes we do know - they are just racist cunts

Just sorted a couple of tickets for Chelsea away for a Jewish Dad and his lad. I only know they are Jewish because the guy was struggling to bring his parents home from Israel (a week or 2 back). I’ve no real interest in anyone’s religion. I’m just glad I’m self employed so I can express my own opinions on social media (pretty moderate iMHO) without these ultra Zionist groups threatening my job etc. I’m used to that with Liverpool fans lol.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I'm not quite sure who you mean in the last paragraph, but the first paragraph deserves a comment or two.

It wasn't a well run sovereign state run by Arabs. It was an Ottoman territory with Arabs rubbing along together fine, Christians, Moslems, Jews. Your word "overran" is awkward, but the whole project was aimed at creating a Jewish majority in the land, creating those "facts on the ground". That probably did feel a bit like being overrun, even for the indigenous Jews soon outnumbered by colonising Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.

Rubbing along fine?
Doing their best go keep the Sultan from visiting to put down rebellions more like.
3 Ottoman provences.
Four different groups of arabs "Galilee Basin", ''Costal', "Jordanian Valley" and Bedouins as well as Substantial Christian commuities and minority Jewish ones.
Tax was based on land ownership and Tax avoidance led to hill top land belonging to no one and later to Jewish settlement on land belonging to no one.
Not the land of milk and honey that dome like to believe.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

My friend Ahed was arrested last night by the Israeli Death Force, over an instagram post that wasn’t even from her account.

This is Israeli justice in a nutshell, The purge is well and truly underway.

 

[BlueAnorak]

And what is it you think Hamas would like to discuss with Israel?

Probably the route the jews woukd have to take to the Hamas led execution squad killing fields.

 

[Roachy]

It's kind of remarkable how many people who talk like experts on this don't know that Hamas has been fighting for the return to 1967 borders for 10 years now.

Yes, some of their people like to roll out the whole death to Israel thing, but just like various Israeli ministers who have called for the total ethnic cleansing of Gaza and dropping a nuke on Gaza city - that's not the organisation's policy.

And hey, they're a terrorist group so maybe they're unreliable negotiators, but the only people who are opposed to negotiations are people who benefit from the status quo. RIght wing Israelis for whom the end game is annexing Palestine, and the most extreme sectors of Hamas who just want the war machine to roll on and convert another generation or 2 to their cause.

So you don't actually know then.

 

[Palerider]

One question I would have to the Pro-Israeli posters is, if Netanyahu sees this through and at the end of it all as some of us suspect, he either splits the Gaza Strip North and South or takes it all, but effectively cleanses the land of The Palestinian who lived their, will this be justified?
It’s a scenario that hasn’t happened yet, I know, but it’s not too far fetched a question to ask.

We would all want Netanyahu gone as well as Hamas, but there is an overwhelming feeling that this is exactly the opportunity he was looking for.

I support Israel in this, they are obviously not perfect but I do see them and their supporters as the adults in the room. To answer your question (which is far fetched), no, removing the Palestinians from their lands is not justified UNLESS it comes down to the survival of one state/country or the other. i.e. a fight to the death where both sides are so consumed by hate for each other that they are willing to fight forever. In that case I think it would be better if one of them moved (peacefully ideally). Any volunteers?

Now, assuming that the majority of both peoples are not consumed by hate and just want to get along with their lives and each other then the problem becomes how do you get rid of the extremists on both sides? Now Israel can vote Netanyahu out in their next election but the Palestinians seems unable (or unwilling) to do anything about Hamas.

I think Israel, the US and the UK have called this correctly. Nothing will change until Hamas are destroyed and my belief is that long term that will be to the benefit of both Palestinians and Israelis.

My question to you would be "How do you make Israel safe from attack whilst leaving Hamas in place?" and you have to answer that before Israel will agree to a ceasefire.