Middle East Conflict

It's kind of remarkable how many people who talk like experts on this don't know that Hamas has been fighting for the return to 1967 borders for 10 years now.

Yes, some of their people like to roll out the whole death to Israel thing, but just like various Israeli ministers who have called for the total ethnic cleansing of Gaza and dropping a nuke on Gaza city - that's not the organisation's policy.

And hey, they're a terrorist group so maybe they're unreliable negotiators, but the only people who are opposed to negotiations are people who benefit from the status quo. RIght wing Israelis for whom the end game is annexing Palestine, and the most extreme sectors of Hamas who just want the war machine to roll on and convert another generation or 2 to their cause.
Yeah right. Then subsequently how they can eradicate Jews inside Isradl's 1948 borders.
I'd read the 1988 charter if I was you - to know their true intent. The 2017 update is aimply to put lipstick on a pig for gullible westerner support.
They have been designated a a terrorist organisation in the west for a reason.
 
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I can't make out that video either, I'm not naïve enough to think that Israeli soldiers aren't up to things like that but can't see it here mate.
I don’t think the IDF would be shooting into the car for no reason. If it was a Hamas commander then I wouldn’t lose any sleep. If I see any more info on social media I will share it.
 
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It's kind of remarkable how many people who talk like experts on this don't know that Hamas has been fighting for the return to 1967 borders for 10 years now.

Yes, some of their people like to roll out the whole death to Israel thing, but just like various Israeli ministers who have called for the total ethnic cleansing of Gaza and dropping a nuke on Gaza city - that's not the organisation's policy.

And hey, they're a terrorist group so maybe they're unreliable negotiators, but the only people who are opposed to negotiations are people who benefit from the status quo. RIght wing Israelis for whom the end game is annexing Palestine, and the most extreme sectors of Hamas who just want the war machine to roll on and convert another generation or 2 to their cause.
That's easily disprovable. First of all I think you mean the 1948 or pre-1967 borders, rather than 1967, which is when Israel did occupy Gaza, the West Bank and Sinai.

After 1948 Gaza was exactly as it is now. Hamas could have had a state there, accepted Israel's existence and renounced armed struggle. Quite clearly it hasn't done that.

They only agreed to claim to want a return to those pre-1967 borders so they could be part of the Palestinian council with Fatah. That gave them the legitimacy to stand in the 2006 elections.
 
I support Israel in this, they are obviously not perfect but I do see them and their supporters as the adults in the room. To answer your question (which is far fetched), no, removing the Palestinians from their lands is not justified UNLESS it comes down to the survival of one state/country or the other. i.e. a fight to the death where both sides are so consumed by hate for each other that they are willing to fight forever. In that case I think it would be better if one of them moved (peacefully ideally). Any volunteers?

Now, assuming that the majority of both peoples are not consumed by hate and just want to get along with their lives and each other then the problem becomes how do you get rid of the extremists on both sides? Now Israel can vote Netanyahu out in their next election but the Palestinians seems unable (or unwilling) to do anything about Hamas.

I think Israel, the US and the UK have called this correctly. Nothing will change until Hamas are destroyed and my belief is that long term that will be to the benefit of both Palestinians and Israelis.

My question to you would be "How do you make Israel safe from attack whilst leaving Hamas in place?" and you have to answer that before Israel will agree to a ceasefire.
It's always about making Israel safe. How safe do you think Palestinians living in the west Bank and Gaza have felt in the last 20 years?
 

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