Middle East Conflict

Jazzyblue said:
After 846 pages - wow - I feel like I'm gatecrashing this thread chipping in at this stage, but the post above is an absolutely key point, apologies if the points I make have been made before.

This conflict is being packaged to us as a conflict between a Western democracy and Islamist nutters. But the truth is the forces leading Netanyahu are largely far right or fundamentalist, they are not interested in liberalism, gay rights, or any of the other things which are used to make the case that Israel is the only democracy in the ME.

The endgame for some close to Bibi is a theocracy in which the Third Temple is restored. The American evangelical right supports them in this because of the belief that when the Third Temple is restored, the end of the world is close at hand.

If Bibi and his fellow travellers clung to power, once they had pushed the people of Gaza into Egypt, they would move on to another power grab which will weaken the dream of a liberal Israel, which many Jewish people in Israel and the diaspora will not like - just as Bibi was attempting when things deteriorated so badly.

The attack of October 7 was horrific and Hamas are a murderous racket, but there's so much opportunism in politics. Bibi and his mates aren't just motivated by security or even revenge. You've got a load of oil and gas waiting to be exploited in Gaza, the dream of a Greater Israel free of Palestinians, End Times philosophies and an authoritarian government agenda all in the mix here.

Our government - in wanting to demonise protest and protect the trade deal with Israel - is making it worse with their Disney interpretation of a complex situation. My heart goes out to both sides, because the leadership is poor all around.
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Take a bow
 
St.Pauli support said:
Thanks for your personal background, it helps to understand your position.

On USA, I'd say they won't weaken Israel's position in the Middle East publicly, not an inch.
And in my perception the stream of terrible pictures and news has decreased, combined with the fact that humans get used to the same stimulus and then carry on with daily life. All has been said and repeated times and again. Fighting Hamas in Gaza City won't increase international pressure I think.

And Biden surely won't forget his 2024 campaign...
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There is a massive diplomatic effort going on right now by the Americans some might say they are panicking, they wanted to leave the Middle East to its own devices and concentrate on the threat of Chinese expansion in the pacific, they got the initial reaction badly wrong and they know it! They have emboldened Iran in the region and are disliked even more by the streets

They are going to have to put in some hard work to put this right, they are making the right noises but I doubt anyone trusts them, they don’t seem to get the irony of them supplying humanitarian aid to Gaza when it’s their arms and their green light that had caused the damage

By the way the 14 billion dollars in aid has not left the bank account yet

As for the future of Gaza who knows I doubt anyone does it’s criminals irresponsible to go in to a conflict with no plan for what happens next
 
Roachy said:
Which bit specifically?
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About IHL for a state's exemption from article 2(4) in the case of self-defence largely mirroring the domestic laws of the UN members (common law in the UK) that self-defence should only be exercised in relation to real and immediate danger and be proportional to the threat. Which I think was his point.
 
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