Middle East Conflict

[kaz7]

How the fuck do you evacuate a major hospital ? The staff are not going to kill their patients by leaving them behind , they will stay with them, it is a fucking nonsense to say evacuate sick and injured people and the cunts know it

 

[Username Required]

Attacks on Jews rising globally after October 7 - US antisemitism envoy

Ambassador Deborah Lipstadt revealed that these incidents are not just restricted to hateful words but also include tangible acts of violence.

www.jpost.com

Global antisemitic attacks rise by 500% since last year, WZO reveals

A staggering 87% of Jewish respondents shared feelings of diminished safety.

www.jpost.com

Deborah Lipstadt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[halfcenturyup]

You have to wipe the Militant version of Hamas out. There is no other way. They must go. It's what's best for both Israel and the Palestinians.

Not sure anyone disagrees with that, apart from the fact that it is an ideology and you can't just kill 10,000 of them and expect it to go away. Just as many of them can simply disappear into the civilian population until the world has had enough and then re-group. Unless you are going to kill all the people of military age, which would just delay things until the next generation. None of this is going to solve anything.

 

[inbetween]

Ask yourself this - what would Russia do in a similar situation?
Have you seen what happened to Aleppo or Grozny?
Israeli military are saints compared to others.

Exactly. To some they believe the west is responsible and all energy is put into that form of criticism but actually what's happening is not new in the world. Look at how Russia is treating Ukraine, look at how Assad and Syria squashed its own population to stop Syrian rebels. I don't see the same energy put into criticising those countries, how many Socialist Worker readers protested the Ukraine war or Syrian regime? None, they instead march to criticise NATO.

What Israel is doing is depressing and wrong but it's not unique or unsurprising in the grand scheme of things. It's quite ironic how Israel attracts so much criticism yet the criticisers put very little energy into criticising the main antagonists in Hamas and who Hamas is backed by. Some are even asking for Israel to stop its defense and allow Hamas attacks to continue because those attacks historically usually only kill a few people or none at all, it's unbelievable.

Hamas are backed by countries who are not exactly known for their record on human rights. The Iranians just for example have said a lot about the humanitarian problems in Gaza but the fact still remains that the Iranian government shoots dissidents who protest against the Iranian regime. The Russians arrest anyone who protests against the war in Ukraine and those who criticise Putin.

The one thing that the protesters and self-righteous don't understand is that when they take a side that is sympathetic or apologetic of Hamas then they lose all moral authority.

 

[domalino]

Also, the Palestinians had the opportunity to set up their country with the Oslo accord. They rejected the deal and made no counter offer.

Uhh, no?

The Oslo accords were both signed by Yasser Arafat and Yitzak Rabin.

How old are you? Where are you from? And why is your knowledge of history so shit?

 

[Dax777]

Not sure anyone disagrees with that, apart from the fact that it is an ideology and you can't just kill 10,000 of them and expect it to go away. Just as many of them can simply disappear into the civilian population until the world has had enough and then re-group. Unless you are going to kill all the people of military age, which would just delay things until the next generation. None of this is going to solve anything.

That's why I made a distinction between the ideology and the militants. As controversial as this might sound, a majority of Muslims in the Middle East and almost certainly in Gaza will be ok with Israel being wiped off the map. But not all are willing to sacrifice to achieve that goal.

You want to wipe out the minority who are willing to sacrifice to achieve that goal. Then create economic opportunities for the rest so they can find meaning in their lives other than that if living for the destruction of another.


Hamas is not an ideology. It's a political and militant group. Sure, you can't destroy the ideology it runs on. But you can destroy the actual group.

 

[domalino]

Hamas is not an ideology. It's a political and militant group. Sure, you can't destroy the ideology it runs on. But you can destroy the actual group.

But you can't actually destroy the group, because the leaders are miles away in safety and even if you wiped out every single member of Hamas tomorrow, someone would simply pick up the banner and carry it on.

 

[Manchester33]

Exactly. To some they believe the west is responsible and all energy is put into that form of criticism but actually what's happening is not new in the world. Look at how Russia is treating Ukraine, look at how Assad and Syria squashed its own population to stop Syrian rebels. I don't see the same energy put into criticising those countries, how many Socialist Worker readers protested the Ukraine war or Syrian regime? None, they instead criticise NATO.

What Israel is doing is depressing and wrong but it's not unique or unsurprising in the grand scheme of things. It's quite ironic how Israel attracts so much criticism yet the criticisers put very little energy into criticising the main antagonists in Hamas and who Hamas is backed by. Some are even asking for Israel to allow Hamas attacks to continue because those attacks historically usually only kill a few people or none at all, it's unbelievable.

Hamas are backed by countries who are not exactly known for their record on human rights. The Iranians just for example have said a lot about the humanitarian problems in Gaza but the fact still remains that the Iranian government shoots dissidents who protest against the Iranian regime. The Russians arrest anyone who protests against the war in Ukraine and those who criticise Putin.

The one thing that the protesters and self-righteous don't understand is that when they take a side that is sympathetic or apologetic of Hamas then they lose all moral authority.

I'm sorry, but the Ukraine reference is way off. The outrage shown towards Russia has been huge and well-documented for well over a year.

This whataboutery is tedious. What Israel's government are doing right now is utterly horrific, and it's not anti-semitic to say so. We all agree Hamas are bastards. Netanyahu and his government are also bastards.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Please explain?

The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

Well, let's start with: Aim of destroying that nation or group. How does killing 1700 people, many of whom weren't Israelis, or even Jews, translate into an attack "with the aim of destroying that nation or group"? They may have that rhetoric in their "manifesto" but they aren't capable of carrying it out, and you were talking about the October 7 attack, not a campaign. So it immediately falls short there.

Then the numbers involved: 1,700 on an Israeli population of 10 million is it? 7-8 million Jews? That isn't genocidal either. Then you have the target of the attack. I know for a fact from Thai people who are back in Thailand now, that Hamas knew they were killing foreigners and even said they were under orders to kill foreigners, some of them could even say hello in Thai to the people they were attacking. Why were they doing that? To attract global attention to their terrorist attack. Unless I am mistaken, people committing genocide generally want to keep it quiet and with a plausible deniability of provable intent, which is a prerequisite for a charge of genocide.

Anyway, I could go on. But it was a terrorist attack, not genocide. In the same way that what the Israelis are doing is committing war crimes against the civilian population, not committing genocide. Yet.

All imo, of course, which is why I said imo before.

 

[Mon Autre]

You have to wipe the Militant version of Hamas out. There is no other way. They must go. It's what's best for both Israel and the Palestinians.

It's a shame Netanyahu didn't think about what was best for Israel when adopting a strategy of favouring Hamas over the Palestinian Authority and allowing money to funnel through to them. He put them where they are.