Middle East Conflict

[kaz7]

If they are not letting the aid in then fair enough , both sides have to commit to it

 

[LesBleuMiserable]

If they are not letting the aid in then fair enough , both sides have to commit to it

How is the world not passing a resolution to take military action against Israel for starving 2.3 million people to possible death. How is the civilian population expected to survive with this nasty regime withholding essential survival items and having blocked the strip by sea air and land.

This is simply mind boggling. We should be taking military action against this genocide.

 

[MCFC_ Phil]

How is the world not passing a resolution to take military action against Israel for starving 2.3 million people to possible death. How is the civilian population expected to survive with this nasty regime withholding essential survival items and having blocked the strip by sea air and land.

This is simply mind boggling. We should be taking military action against this genocide.

What military do you suggest, and by whom?

 

[Irwell]

I think the Jewish people at these protests against antisemitism who are proudly flying the Israeli flag there are doing the rest of the Jewish people in this country a huge disservice. In doing that they are conflating Judaism and the Israeli state, and by extension its actions in Palestine.

At a time where there is a lot of global distaste for what the Israeli state is doing they should be actively avoiding tarring all other Jewish people with the same brush. Once you have conflated these two separate things in the minds of others, what would have been limited to the criticism of a political body turns into antisemitism by default as the two things become one and the same.

I absolutely agree there has been a rise in antisemitism which needs some action taking to resolve. Are protests the right way? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. The optics of the current protests though are risking causing a large surge in the very thing they are protesting against.

 

[goalmole]

I think the Jewish people at these protests against antisemitism who are proudly flying the Israeli flag there are doing the rest of the Jewish people in this country a huge disservice. In doing that they are conflating Judaism and the Israeli state, and by extension its actions in Palestine.

At a time where there is a lot of global distaste for what the Israeli state is doing they should be actively avoiding tarring all other Jewish people with the same brush. Once you have conflated these two separate things in the minds of others, what would have been limited to the criticism of a political body turns into antisemitism by default as the two things become one and the same.

I absolutely agree there has been a rise in antisemitism which needs some action taking to resolve. Are protests the right way? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. The optics of the current protests though are risking causing a large surge in the very thing they are protesting against.

The Israeli state, a lot of Israeli people and some Jewish people deliberately conflate the two (any criticism of Israel, according to them, is anti semitism) to shut down criticism of Israel.
They've weaponised it to an inch of its life.

 

[PragueBlue]

I think the Jewish people at these protests against antisemitism who are proudly flying the Israeli flag there are doing the rest of the Jewish people in this country a huge disservice. In doing that they are conflating Judaism and the Israeli state, and by extension its actions in Palestine.

Presumably you also feel that protests against Israel shouldn't display the Palestinian flag as they would be conflating the idea of a Palestinian state with the actions of Hamas.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I think the Jewish people at these protests against antisemitism who are proudly flying the Israeli flag there are doing the rest of the Jewish people in this country a huge disservice. In doing that they are conflating Judaism and the Israeli state, and by extension its actions in Palestine.

At a time where there is a lot of global distaste for what the Israeli state is doing they should be actively avoiding tarring all other Jewish people with the same brush. Once you have conflated these two separate things in the minds of others, what would have been limited to the criticism of a political body turns into antisemitism by default as the two things become one and the same.

I absolutely agree there has been a rise in antisemitism which needs some action taking to resolve. Are protests the right way? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. The optics of the current protests though are risking causing a large surge in the very thing they are protesting against.

Thats the bit I worry about tbh, Israel is really turning the world against them with what they are doing, its just fuelling yet more hatred, and whilst Hamas would be expected to do that, this is a civilised nation wtf.

 

[Irwell]

Presumably you also feel that protests against Israel shouldn't display the Palestinian flag as they would be conflating the idea of a Palestinian state with the actions of Hamas.

Those protests are specifically about the treatment of Palestinian people so the inclusion of the Palestinian flag there makes sense. The protests against antisemitism are not protests against the treatment of Israelis and flying an Israeli flag at a protest related to Judaism in general conflates the two.

 

[Irwell]

The Israeli state, a lot of Israeli people and some Jewish people deliberately conflate the two (any criticism of Israel, according to them, is anti semitism) to shut down criticism of Israel.
They've weaponised it to an inch of its life.

Which is the bit I find dangerous, because if the balance of sentiment in the US and UK tips against Israel it won't be easy to just unpick that conflation.

 

[PragueBlue]

Those protests are specifically about the treatment of Palestinian people so the inclusion of the Palestinian flag there makes sense. The protests against antisemitism are not protests against the treatment of Israelis and flying an Israeli flag at a protest related to Judaism in general conflates the two.

Flying a flag of any country could be deemed to be supportive of that government behind that flag. In the case of Palestine, that would be Hamas and in the case of Israel, Netahanyu and his ilk. Both are cunts and should not be supported.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Presumably you also feel that protests against Israel shouldn't display the Palestinian flag as they would be conflating the idea of a Palestinian state with the actions of Hamas.

False analogy. Swap it out for a Hamas flag and it makes sense.

 

[PragueBlue]

False analogy. Swap it out for a Hamas flag and it makes sense.

Aren't Hamas the elected authority in Palestine? If so, then then equates to an elected government in Israel.

Must admit to having had a few drinks so perhaps have missed something somewhere. Either way, extremists on both sides are cunts (just to clarify my position).

 

[franksinatra]

Has much information been released on the current situation in Israel itself? Are there internal protests taking place? What are relations like between different factions?

Not something I have seen reported.

 

[TinFoilHat]

A another perspective on it.

No doubt be shit down before people watch it

 

[ChicagoBlue]

A bit like the huge haul of ammunition which the IDF told us was being stored at the Hospital.

View attachment 99547

If you’re saying that picture is indicative of what was discovered in the tunnels that never existed, I can only “guffaw” in your general direction.

Believe what you will. Nothing I, or anyone else, say will change it, apparently.

I believe one side was attacked in a shocking way and has responded with overwhelming force. That’s the nature of war.

In common parlance of the day, “Fuck about, find out!” People rarely like finding out.

Reasonable people can discuss how far is too far, but the response was ALWAYS going to be disproportionate in a “organized terrorist attack vs organized military response” scenario.

War is bad. War is necessary. It’s the human condition.

 

[goalmole]

Thats the bit I worry about tbh, Israel is really turning the world against them with what they are doing, its just fuelling yet more hatred, and whilst Hamas would be expected to do that, this is a civilised nation wtf.

Obviously not as civilised as you might like to think.
Under the the surface, it's a brutal, racist, colonial occupying power that regularly imprisons without charge or trial, shoots children dead for throwing stones and practices an apartheid that would make the South African racists (whom the Israelis propped up and supported for decades despite international sanctions) blush.

I think your definition of "civilised" might need a revisit.

 

[goalmole]

If you’re saying that picture is indicative of what was discovered in the tunnels that never existed, I can only “guffaw” in your general direction.

Believe what you will. Nothing I, or anyone else, say will change it, apparently.

I believe one side was attacked in a shocking way and has responded with overwhelming force. That’s the nature of war.

In common parlance of the day, “Fuck about, find out!” People rarely like finding out.

Reasonable people can discuss how far is too far, but the response was ALWAYS going to be disproportionate in a “organized terrorist attack vs organized military response” scenario.

War is bad. War is necessary. It’s the human condition.

Another one who thinks the Palestine problem started on October 7th 2023, conveniently ignoring the repression, injustice and atrocities committed against the whole Palestinian nation for the last 75 years.

 

[goalmole]

Aren't Hamas the elected authority in Palestine? If so, then then equates to an elected government in Israel.

Must admit to having had a few drinks so perhaps have missed something somewhere. Either way, extremists on both sides are cunts (just to clarify my position).

What you've missed is that one set of cunts, who possess overwhelming military supremacy is trying to oppress, subjugate and ethnically cleanse a whole population while the other set of cunts, who were directly created and supported by the first set of cunts and now armed with today's equivalent of bows and arrows are the only military means the oppressed population have to resist the first set of cunts.
Not all cunts are equal.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Now, where is that graphic of the "command and control centre" under the hospital that the IDF distributed when you need it?

Imho, they haven't found what they said was there. Were there tunnels there? Yes, of course. I would have put tunnels under there if I was Hamas. Was there a connection to the tunnels inside the hospital grounds? Very probably. It's a big hospital. Did they communicate from under the hospital. Presumably, yes. But was it the "beating heart" of Hamas? I haven't seen anything to justify that, quite honestly.

When your “soldiers” wear street garb, while carrying RPGs, that war crime, but because the IDF haven’t found “enough” terrorist infrastructure for you, there’s nothing to see? Nothing to justify attacking and destroying these tunnels?

WTF is going on in the world that there are so many terrorist sympathizers everywhere? What happened on Oct 7th was horrific. The IDF is hunting down the perpetrators, who like to use human shields and dissolve into the general population when on the run in their guerilla war. What part of that was never going to get ugly?

I dared suggest on Day One that this was going to turn into a propaganda war, because people always want “a reason” for everything and want to feel satisfied that justification meets their individual threshold. That’s the crazy You Tibe/Tik Tok/X world we live in! Find a few seconds of video clip that looks bad, esp when removed from any context, and run with it like hell! When the clicks stop, lather, rinse, repeat!

Meanwhile, we are creating division across almost all sectors of society and feeding the prejudices of everyone, no matter their “side” or beliefs.

The world us on fire, autocrats are gaining power and prominence, and the poor are looking for solutions to their plight in “otherism.”

This isn’t going to end well, because nationalism has been bubbling under the surface and it’s about to explode. Netherlands is just such a result and Ireland’s riots were reflexive enough to show that lawlessness is one YouTube video from exploding anywhere where disaffection is rife…and it’s rife EVERYWHERE!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Another one who thinks the Palestine problem started on October 7th 2023, conveniently ignoring the repression, injustice and atrocities committed against the whole Palestinian nation for the last 75 years.

Find me that person who thinks 10/7/23 was day one and I’ll guffaw in their general direction, too.

Now, tell me that the events of that day were not sufficiently outrageous to create a spark that ignited a conflagration that had been merely a smoldering mess.

Don't ignore reality by suggesting others are ignoring history.