Middle East Conflict

[robbieh]

Even by Netanyahu's standards, Smotrich is a lunatic. It's like some of the far-right nutters here, who want to deport all Muslims. Do they represent the mainstream? No.
Do you seriously believe that's a strategic aim of Israel? No you don't.

The problem in this thread is people quoting extremists and insisting they represent mainstream opinions.

Isn't this 'lunatic' in the government?

 

[SebastianBlue]

Even by Netanyahu's standards, Smotrich is a lunatic. It's like some of the far-right nutters here, who want to deport all Muslims. Do they represent the mainstream? No.
Do you seriously believe that's a strategic aim of Israel? No you don't.

The problem in this thread is people quoting extremists and insisting they represent mainstream opinions.

Of course Smotrich doesn’t represent the majority of Israelis—I am not sure I have seen anyone arguing that, though, perhaps I missed it.

But that is not the point being made by most of those denouncing the actions of the state.

Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, and other extreme Zionists are the driving force behind the Israeli government right now. Netanyahu is willing to give them almost anything they want in order to stay in power and avoid accountability. He does share some of their ideology—he always has opposed a two state solution and has many, many times expressed support for an expanded Israel. But even where he may not prescribe to their extreme religious and political beliefs—including Kahanism—he defers to them to avoid being ousted on his far-right side. He has allowed them to implement increasingly unpopular and extremism policies, and he has encouraged the expansions and intensification of the war in Gaza, military and settler operations/annexations in the West Bank, the opening of the new front with Hezbollah (including bombing Lebanon in to submission), and now attacking and threatening UN forces and the UN itself.

They are effectively the Israeli state at this point, so it is intellectually dishonest to argue that because they do not represent most Israelis views and desires, that their rhetoric, actions, and policies are not relevant or dangerous. Or that they do not represent or shape the strategic aims of Israel.

It would be like saying because Trump does not represent most Americans he is no threat to anyone. And even with him, at least he isn’t actually the president at present!

 

[SebastianBlue]

Isn't this 'lunatic' in the government?

He is not merely in government—along with Ben-Gvir and several other prominent cabinet members and military leaders, he is effectively the government at present.

 

[robbieh]

Imagine living in Devon sipping your coffee talking about football, while at the same time you know the air force are bombing the shit out of Cornwall. Day after day week after week. Thousands dying, famine and disease.

I reckon eventually you'd ask yourself. What on earth are we doing?

 

[N1985]

Imagine living in Devon sipping your coffee talking about football, while at the same time you know the air force are bombing the shit out of Cornwall. Day after day week after week. Thousands dying, famine and disease.

I reckon eventually you'd ask yourself. What on earth are we doing?

I'd probably ask, why the fuck are we bombing ourselves?

 

[Don Karleone]

Israel is bombing people in tents, again. The videos on Twitter are horrific.

 

[cucumberman]

In 1967, when Nasser was dick-swinging around the Middle East, there was a UN force stationed in Sinai that had been there since Suez to protect international waterways.

Nasser ordered them out and the UN Secretary General meekly complied. With them out of the way Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran to international shipping. Israel said that would be a causus belli and they acted on that.

That led to the Six Day War, which left the West Bank & Gaza in Israeli hands. Had the UN force stayed put, it's doubtful the war would've happened and we wouldn't be where we are today.

The UN force in Lebanon was supposed to ensure that Hezbollah met the terms of the 2006 ceasefire and remained north of the Litani river. They conspicuously failed to do that, which is why we're where we are now in Lebanon.

So you could maybe understand why Israel has no faith in the UN.

On a different tangent,

The first attack post 7 October by Hezbollah was on 8th October. The strike was on Shebaa Farm that comprised of old shells and a threat statement that if Israel continues to wage war on Gaza instead of a ceasefire, them Hezbollah will continue to strike Shebaa Farm. No one was harmed.

Shebaa farm is not Israel territory. It is an Israel OCCUPIED territory which Israel rather provide ownership to Syria. Syria however identifies the Shebaa area as Lebanon territory.

Hence, did Hezbollah violate Israel-Lebanon Peace Agreement? Not really, Because it was not cross-border attack.

In retaliation however, Israel identifies it as an attack ON Israel territory, even when Israel itself identifies it as Syrian ‘territory’. Thus, using the arc that Hezbollah did attack on Israel territory, Israel attacked Southern Lebanon. Yes, Lebanon’s real territory. The attack of shells and drone was on civilian area, and 2 Lebanese children were wounded from glass and debris. This cross-border attack identifies Israel as the first contravenor of Israel-Lebanon Peace Agreement.

Days thereafter in October, Hezbollah still attacked on Israel OCCUPIED territory as threats to demand for Gaza ceasefire.

It was not until Israel did attack Lebanese people near the Metula area border (Lebanon-Israel border) that Hezbollah retaliated after in Israel territory.

Hence, a few days after the Metula event, Hezbollah fired an antitank missile near the border BUT in Israel territory. The antitank attack was the first strike from Hezbollah cross territory to actual Israel territory. The antitank missile killed 1 Israel soldier.

Then the tit for tat attacks escalate to the current state.

Israel has been attacking Southern Lebanon and deep Lebanon with air attacks and missiles, killing numerous civilians, which Israel identifies as ‘collateral’, ‘proportionality’ and ‘human shields’. Israel considers that in times of war, civilians will die. Currently, more than 2000 Lebanese have been killed, including 127 children and 261 women.

In contrast, The latest Hezbollah air attack, which was 8 hours ago, used drones covertly flying over any Israel civilian compounds to sneak all the way close to the Israel military base, and conducted precision attack. The attack (based on latest update) killed 7 and wounded 67 (in another figure on wounded, up to 170 wounded). All soldiers.

In a nutshell, Israel emphasises that civilian collateral deaths is unavoidable even with precision munition and intelligence. Hezbollah’s of what they first declared as their ‘uncoventional retaliation’ several days ago, has targeted soldiers.

 

[cucumberman]

This entire video, from BBC even, covers the animosity and atrocity of what this far-right Israel government is becoming.



The current Israel government of far-right reps of Likud and supremacist Messianites are holier-than-thou, god-given right, most moral people.

And based on Lancet, the Gaza Conflict (which could have been prevented) is attributable to the current 180,000 deaths of Gazans. Or 7.9% of the whole Gazan population.

In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death9 to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip.

 

[DutchSMOKE11]

There's some utter crap posted on here but that takes the absolute biscuit.

Rather than counter the argument is that the best reply u can u can say?

So with that, the burden is on me to provide some resource to back up my claim.

here goes:
https://mepei.com/greater-israel-an-ongoing-expansion-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-north-africa/

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/i...-netanyahus-ideology-top-un-official-18218835

https://www.proquest.com/docview/1678895630?sourcetype=Trade Journals

Books have been published on this topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinon_Plan

 

[The blue phantom]

Rather than counter the argument is that the best reply u can u can say?

So with that, the burden is on me to provide some resource to back up my claim.

here goes:
https://mepei.com/greater-israel-an-ongoing-expansion-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-north-africa/

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/i...-netanyahus-ideology-top-un-official-18218835

https://www.proquest.com/docview/1678895630?sourcetype=Trade Journals

Books have been published on this topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinon_Plan

Some posters cannot come to terms with the Israeli atrocities and what their end game is. You've got Jewish posters who have lived in Israel stating a Genocide is in progress and again the same folk are refusing to accept what the majority of the world is witnessing.