MNF

[MCFCinUSA]

It was a great discussion, and Carragher was backing up what I've said in the Pellegrini and Dzeko / Negredo threads. 442 against elite European teams will get you found out as you'll get outnumbered in midfield.

Neville made some great points in his analysis, that we should stick to out preferred shape, and the United "didn't do too badly playing that shape for 15 years."

What Neville forgot to mention was just how badly United got outclassed by Barcelona in 2 European finals by blindly sticking to that system.

Personally I think we have got so many goals in us at home that I think we should stick to 442 at home to Barca. There is always the threat we will get outclassed like when Bayern came to the Etihad. But if we are to stand any chance of getting through, we have to have a couple of goals lead going in to the second leg.

In the Nou Camp though, I think if we stick to 442 it is suicide. I think they will completely outnumber us in midfield and they could end up with 75% of the ball, making it a near impossible task to stop them from scoring.

Everyone has their opinion, but I stand by mine that we look brilliant playing 442 in England, we look like we'll score goals for fun. But against the top teams in Europe, we'll get found out playing that way, particularly away from home.

It would take some bottle to go 442 at home against Barca after what happened against Munich.

4-4-2. High line. High pressure. Offside trap = Success.

for this reason I'd have Negredo playing in both games; he works his socks off

 

[whp.blue]

4-4-2 will work against barca , but we need 2 very mobile forwards chasing every ball , and dont give barca time to dwell on the ball , so the front pairing shouid be negredo and aguero . Dzeko has improved 100% recently but hes not as mobile as sergio and alvaro , the barca game will truly give us an idea of how far our club has progressed under MP.

this
Negrado and Aguero both know Barca well and will be really up for this game so they will work their socks off

however Nasri will be a huge miss for this game

 

[Little by Little]

I feel that the only way we're gonna progress is if we spank Barca at home as i don't see us winning at the Nou Camp.

So i think we should go 4222

 

[john@staustell]

Carragher basically did an assassination job on City, main points:

We lost a game 3 months ago to the best team in the world
No mention we beat them away
Aguero and City apparently dont work hard because he had a shot of Aguero looking down for half a second - to me they are some of the the hardest workers about
Demichelis made a mistake once so apparently needs protection.
The over-riding impression was that he hasn't actually watched us play

Arsenal were going to beat us but they let in 6. Barca will only beat us if they have the ball and aren't too busy trying to stop us- it's more of a dilemma for them I think coming to the Etihad.

FFS they've just drawn 1-1 with Levante and lost 7-0 to Bayern on aggregate last year. Carragher just wont just us any credit at all and Neville was just laughing at his mate's stupidity.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Well four in midfield made us look like chumps against Bayern, it was the main reason we lost and never saw the ball. Five in midfield was used to great affect when we beat them away Garcia's pace wasn't a problem as he just acted as a sweeper for the midfield it was one of the three main reasons we won that night (the other two were the phenomenal work rate of the players and the fact Bayern switched off at 2-0 up and couldn't get themselves back up for it).

But we've become accustomed to four in midfield for most of the season and it would be a shame if we can't go and use it, especially at home. But it could end up being the reason we go out to Barcelona in the end as we don't have enough mobile players in the squad to play a 4 against an elite side really. You need to control the midfield to win big games and i think Barcelona would find it easy to find space to be passed the ball in and keep possession due to the extra space and time on the ball because of fewer numbers and less effective closing down by slower players on our side.

Difficult decision for the boss.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Isnt are 4-4-2 more a 2-5-3 during most forward forays

 

[Craig]

Well four in midfield made us look like chumps against Bayern, it was the main reason we lost and never saw the ball. Five in midfield was used to great affect when we beat them away Garcia's pace wasn't a problem as he just acted as a sweeper for the midfield it was one of the three main reasons we won that night (the other two were the phenomenal work rate of the players and the fact Bayern switched off at 2-0 up and couldn't get themselves back up for it).

But we've become accustomed to four in midfield for most of the season and it would be a shame if we can't go and use it, especially at home. But it could end up being the reason we go out to Barcelona in the end as we don't have enough mobile players in the squad to play a 4 against an elite side really. You need to control the midfield to win big games and i think Barcelona would find it easy to find space to be passed the ball in and keep possession due to the extra space and time on the ball because of fewer numbers and less effective closing down by slower players on our side.

Difficult decision for the boss.

Totally understand the point you are making but apart from Yaya ( who is obviously not slow) would question who is slow and not capable of closing down if he starts the obvious 6 in midfield and upfront.

If Nasri was fit I'd start with one upfront even at home. As he's not though I think we have to play to our strengths and get one of the strikers to drop in when we lose the ball. They could both definitely do it for one night. I agree with Neville we should play to our strengths at home and not sacrifice a player of Negrado's quality for Garcia because we are too worried about systems and the other team.

 

[without a dream]

Well four in midfield made us look like chumps against Bayern, it was the main reason we lost and never saw the ball. Five in midfield was used to great affect when we beat them away Garcia's pace wasn't a problem as he just acted as a sweeper for the midfield it was one of the three main reasons we won that night (the other two were the phenomenal work rate of the players and the fact Bayern switched off at 2-0 up and couldn't get themselves back up for it).

But we've become accustomed to four in midfield for most of the season and it would be a shame if we can't go and use it, especially at home. But it could end up being the reason we go out to Barcelona in the end as we don't have enough mobile players in the squad to play a 4 against an elite side really. You need to control the midfield to win big games and i think Barcelona would find it easy to find space to be passed the ball in and keep possession due to the extra space and time on the ball because of fewer numbers and less effective closing down by slower players on our side.

Difficult decision for the boss.

Not really, I wouldn't say Silva played in midfield in Munich.

442 is a really effective way to defend if done properly and I suspect we'll go with 2 strikers at home, if we're going to change it will be away.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Well four in midfield made us look like chumps against Bayern, it was the main reason we lost and never saw the ball. Five in midfield was used to great affect when we beat them away Garcia's pace wasn't a problem as he just acted as a sweeper for the midfield it was one of the three main reasons we won that night (the other two were the phenomenal work rate of the players and the fact Bayern switched off at 2-0 up and couldn't get themselves back up for it).

But we've become accustomed to four in midfield for most of the season and it would be a shame if we can't go and use it, especially at home. But it could end up being the reason we go out to Barcelona in the end as we don't have enough mobile players in the squad to play a 4 against an elite side really. You need to control the midfield to win big games and i think Barcelona would find it easy to find space to be passed the ball in and keep possession due to the extra space and time on the ball because of fewer numbers and less effective closing down by slower players on our side.

Difficult decision for the boss.

Totally understand the point you are making but apart from Yaya ( who is obviously not slow) would question who is slow and not capable of closing down if he starts the obvious 6 in midfield and upfront.

If Nasri was fit I'd start with one upfront even at home. As he's not though I think we have to play to our strengths and get one of the strikers to drop in when we lose the ball. They could both definitely do it for one night. I agree with Neville we should play to our strengths at home and not sacrifice a player of Negrado's quality for Garcia because we are too worried about systems and the other team.

Yaya is very slow off the mark. He's only fast after five-ten metres so when a team who passes the ball quickly or closes down in numbers (Dortmund at home last season, Bayern at home this season), his lack of mobility off the mark is exploited. There are only two players in our midfield who possess real pace and that's Fernandinho and Navas. That is why we don't play a pressing game at all. It's a sprinters way to play and pressing is a team thing, not an individual.

I'm not saying we won't or shouldn't play 4222 but i think it could be the thing that Barcelona pin point and exploit in the way they beat us, if they do end up beating us. Of course, we might win and then it isn't a talking point!

 

[michael1991]

Sky Sports 1 now if anyones not saw it yet, just about to talk about it