More than half of Brits want burka ban

malg said:
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I love baseball for only this reason, old chaps losing their shit is funny.
 
SWP's back said:
You think women should but food for the week by themselves?

The stone age just called and said you're wanted there now.
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Well your missus should have no problems covering her knees since she's wearing the trousers.
 
We can't ban it but we should encourage people to not wear it. It's not a cultural thing; it's an oppression thing. Too many things get swept under the 'culture' rug which discourages people to talk about the issue.
 
It's a moral minefield.

On the one hand there is the issue of freedom. Should people be allowed to wear anything they like? Surely in a liberal society that's the ideal. People can wear what they want when they want. Except they can't. A nudist would be arrested if he walked into the Arndale in his birthday suit for example. And why? Because it's culturally unacceptable. Would he actually be causing any harm?

Then there is the security thing. I've worked in places where you aren't allowed in with a motorcycle helmet on because nobody can see your face. Yet burka clad women could walk freely in. Is that not hypocritical. I doubt it would be legal for a shop to ban people wearing the burka from entering.

The debate around the burka itself is tricky too. Some argue it is a symbol of oppression. Others that it is liberating because women aren't judged on how attractive they are. How many of the women wearing it do so through choice? I have no idea. How many merely think they freely choose to wear it after a lifetime of conditioning and brainwashing?

A flat ban doesn't appeal to me. Bans in certain situations eg the shop example may be justifiable. If a shop has a policy of not allowing helmets they should be free to stop anyone wearing a burka from entering unless they reveal their face. If it is being done for genuine security reasons I don't think there's an issue with it.

As always anything to do with religion has one answer and that is education. Give anyone a childhood education free from religious bias, expectation and conditioning and they are highly unlikely to choose a religion. If they do and then choose to wear the burka then it's their choice and who is anyone to question that? We can't give immigrants that education but faith schools should not exist in the UK. No child should be branded a Christian, Jew, Muslim just because their parents are. You wouldn't call a 5-year-old a Tory, a Feminist, an Keynesian because of their parents views would you?
 
masterwig said:
It's a moral minefield.

On the one hand there is the issue of freedom. Should people be allowed to wear anything they like? Surely in a liberal society that's the ideal. People can wear what they want when they want. Except they can't. A nudist would be arrested if he walked into the Arndale in his birthday suit for example. And why? Because it's culturally unacceptable. Would he actually be causing any harm?

Then there is the security thing. I've worked in places where you aren't allowed in with a motorcycle helmet on because nobody can see your face. Yet burka clad women could walk freely in. Is that not hypocritical. I doubt it would be legal for a shop to ban people wearing the burka from entering.

The debate around the burka itself is tricky too. Some argue it is a symbol of oppression. Others that it is liberating because women aren't judged on how attractive they are. How many of the women wearing it do so through choice? I have no idea. How many merely think they freely choose to wear it after a lifetime of conditioning and brainwashing?

A flat ban doesn't appeal to me. Bans in certain situations eg the shop example may be justifiable. If a shop has a policy of not allowing helmets they should be free to stop anyone wearing a burka from entering unless they reveal their face. If it is being done for genuine security reasons I don't think there's an issue with it.

As always anything to do with religion has one answer and that is education. Give anyone a childhood education free from religious bias, expectation and conditioning and they are highly unlikely to choose a religion. If they do and then choose to wear the burka then it's their choice and who is anyone to question that? We can't give immigrants that education but faith schools should not exist in the UK. No child should be branded a Christian, Jew, Muslim just because their parents are. You wouldn't call a 5-year-old a Tory, a Feminist, an Keynesian because of their parents views would you?
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Excellent post.
 
Why Always Ste said:
I'm being rather presumptuous here but I can gather from your post that you either don't work in Security and or when you are out in public places such as the Etihad Stadium (which I've also worked at) you have no regard for your own personal safety and the safety of others.

If a guy hopped off his kwaki in front of the club wearing his helmet and proceeded to enter I'd ask him to remove his helmet.
Why? To identify the individual.
For all I know he could be either underage and or previously barred, or drunk.

This issue needs to be taken away from the religious/racial debate and assessed as a security risk.

I could buy myself a Burqa right now off ebay, and run into the Santander branch which my partner works at and Rob that place....

She wouldn't have a clue that was her fella holding the meat cleaver at her throat.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
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What a pile of horse shit.
 
masterwig said:
It's a moral minefield.

On the one hand there is the issue of freedom. Should people be allowed to wear anything they like? Surely in a liberal society that's the ideal. People can wear what they want when they want. Except they can't. A nudist would be arrested if he walked into the Arndale in his birthday suit for example. And why? Because it's culturally unacceptable. Would he actually be causing any harm?

Then there is the security thing. I've worked in places where you aren't allowed in with a motorcycle helmet on because nobody can see your face. Yet burka clad women could walk freely in. Is that not hypocritical. I doubt it would be legal for a shop to ban people wearing the burka from entering.

The debate around the burka itself is tricky too. Some argue it is a symbol of oppression. Others that it is liberating because women aren't judged on how attractive they are. How many of the women wearing it do so through choice? I have no idea. How many merely think they freely choose to wear it after a lifetime of conditioning and brainwashing?

A flat ban doesn't appeal to me. Bans in certain situations eg the shop example may be justifiable. If a shop has a policy of not allowing helmets they should be free to stop anyone wearing a burka from entering unless they reveal their face. If it is being done for genuine security reasons I don't think there's an issue with it.

As always anything to do with religion has one answer and that is education. Give anyone a childhood education free from religious bias, expectation and conditioning and they are highly unlikely to choose a religion. If they do and then choose to wear the burka then it's their choice and who is anyone to question that? We can't give immigrants that education but faith schools should not exist in the UK. No child should be branded a Christian, Jew, Muslim just because their parents are. You wouldn't call a 5-year-old a Tory, a Feminist, an Keynesian because of their parents views would you?
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Well observed post that, mate.

My instinct is almost always to go with whatever is the most liberal approach, through the prism of an imperfect, complicated world, and as such I'm instinctively opposed to any legislation that prevents people dressing in a certain way. I know it's a position that has some inconsistencies, but there's no simple answer to this question.

If I'm being honest, as a liberal, a burka is not a garment that I'm fully at ease with.
 
On a side note, I'd love to know which insecure fucknut was in power and decided everyone would smash his wife if she showed her face.
 
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