Mr Bates vs the Post Office

[VOOMER]

The "missing money" shown on the Horizon system was never missing it was created by bugs, errors and defects in the system, one example is that in certain circumstances when a postmaster rolled over from one week to the next the system would add phantom stock to the file that didn't exist. So the following week when the postmaster balanced it looked like that stock was missing. In other words the cash and stock the postmaster had was correct it was the system figures that were wrong. There are now 43 known errors that would create phantom stock/cash.
The postmaster paid back the "missing" cash. It is now known that this cash was held in a suspense account for a period of time but then transferred to POL bottom line. So they effectively stole money from postamsters!

Bogus bonuses paid on bogus figures.

 

[MCFC Wirral]

I was with a membership organisation and ticketing for events was outsourced because they were seasonal. The company we used were awful. Never enough employees, poor customer service etc. Complaints galore from long term members yet someone upstairs decided to renew their contract for another five years. It may have been because they were cheap but I often suspected money changed hands.

 

[blueste41]

I've worked for a company for 10 years and every time they introduce a new IT product, I hold off learning it too quickly, because it's almost certainly going to be massively scaled back at some point when it turns out to be shit.

A friend of mine found himself in a meeting giving evidence of the problems of one IT product with a bunch of managers who insisted they were still committed to it. After they thought he'd left the meeting (he was still there) they went on to discuss how they had no intention of fixing any of the issues and were going to just quietly let it limp on because it wasn't worth the resources needed to fix it.

But as Ian Hislop pointed out, it's not so much the shit technology, but the trust people have in it. Just believing that the computer must be correct, even though every bit of experience we all have is that computers constantly fuck up. It's not about whether or not IT systems fuck up though, it's what you do when they do.

It goes beyond that because the common law presumption in the law of England and Wales, formulated by the Law Commission in 1997, that ‘In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the courts will presume that mechanical instruments were in order at the material time.’
In 1999 Parliament changed the law so that courts presume that evidence derived from a computer is reliable.
So the burden of proof was reversed.

 

[VOOMER]

The issue of non disclosure is going to bite them

 

[mosssideblue]

The issue of non disclosure is going to bite them

And rightly so.

 

[dickie davies]

Have a listen to number 13 in the podcast series
It's only 15 minutes long

The Great Post Office Trial - 13. Inside the Machine - BBC Sounds

New documents reveal chaos as Horizon is built and commissioned.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The issue of non disclosure is going to bite them

Non disclosure is absolutely capable of amounting to perverting the course of justice.

 

[mosssideblue]

Non disclosure is absolutely capable of amounting to perverting the course of justice.

I think those that have signed should ignore them and spill the beans. Cannot see any judge coming down hard on them in the current climate.

 

[Dirty Harry]

The issue of non disclosure is going to bite them

What’s being said mate as I mentioned this earlier on in the thread ?

 

[East Level 2]

It did exist, it was all the money the post masters paid back.

I meant the money originally flagged as missing. - Unless I've been Clarkied.