Munich Anniversary

[01282]

Torino had their whole team wiped out in 1949 having dominated Italian football for the previous 10 years. Unfortunately they never recovered from their air crash and are still struggling between Serie A and B to this day. However, I’m not sure how many people in football are aware of the story of ‘Grande Torino’

 

[Craig]

Really? I thought it proved that our fan base behaved themselves impeccably that day......really surprised a blue doesn’t agree with that?

How do you think Leeds or Liverpool fans would’ve behaved if they had’ve been playing United that day?

No, my point was the same tossers who would regularly sing Munich songs at the time would still sing them after that day and think nothing of it. They didn’t that day because of the potential backlash from our own fans and how much our club would have got slated for it. It wasn’t about respect for the victims as it carried on at many away games In concourses and in pubs after.

Obviously I’m talking about a minority of our fans and with things like this it is always a minority. Basically the little hypocrites bottled it that day and nobody can really say those idiots who carried it on after were respectful to the victims because it was never about that to them.

 

[Gary James]

That’s a fantastic read Gary , thanks

Thanks. Spread the word. Ta!

 

[Gary James]

Brilliant article Gary. Thank you.

Thanks. Nudge anyone you know to read it. Lots more like that on my blog.

 

[BlueRockape]

Well said..

One of my earliest memories is being hoiked up onto The Old Man's shoulders to see United's 1958 Cup Final team being greeted at the Town Hall in Albert Square. To give him a rest, our neighbour from Hulme (who was a season ticket holder at Old Trafford along with his wife, both of them watching United home and away for many years) also let me sit on his shoulders to see above the crowd. My aunts and uncles were there too, all Blues mixing with their Red friends to honour the team that had defied the odds after that dreadful air disaster.

Because it was the city's disaster as much as anything else. We shouted for Matt Busby because he had been a Blue in the great City side of but 20 years before, along with Frank Swift who had died in the crash. Nearer to home, my mother had been a babysitter as a young woman to Albert Scanlon, who survived the crash. She would have been devastated if he'd been one of those who lost their lives that day.

Growing up in the 60s, the disaster only came back into our consciousness as kids when on February 6th notices would appear in the Manchester Evening News' 'In Memoriam' column. There would always be something from Duncan Edwards' family, together with Roger Byrne's, David Pegg's and Tommy Taylor's families. I recall as a student on the 15th anniversary in 1973 posting a newspaper clipping which had the complete poem 'Flowers Of Manchester' on a university noticeboard. Nobody touched it or desecrated it. Because it was the city's tragedy.

Sadly, United haven't covered themselves with glory in dealing with the tragedy. In the 60s, the treatment of the players and other staff was frankly appalling (forcing players and their families out of club houses, minimal financial support, not even a whiff of a testimonial to generate funds to support those affected and so on and so on). The initial 'strategy' always seemed to be 'benign ignorance' and not to allow themselves to be opened up to legal challenges.. if we don't mention it, it and everyone will go away.. and our supine press/media was complicit in this, never highlighting what was going on, hardly ever mentioning the Munich disaster until February 6th loomed again..

I spoke with Albert Scanlon on a few occasions in the 70s when I was a student and would occasionally meet my parents in town of a Saturday night for a drink with them at Sinclair's Oyster Bar when they would often bump into Albert. He was clearly very upset about the way he and others had been treated by United post-Munich. On the other hand, they had put up a clock at Old Trafford, so that was that, then..

Fast forward to the early 90s. Time had passed, fans from various clubs including our own had long begun the dreadful chanting that referenced the Munich air disaster and football was beginning to gear up for the modern age that we now know, involving not just mega-bucks sponsorships and tv deals but also Stock Market flotations of clubs and the like. United led the UK charge on all of these things. And that's when the Marketing Johnnies started taking over our great game. It isn't unfair, I believe, to state that this was the time when the Munich air disaster was slowly turned into a marketing tool by these people, becoming part of the legend of the club alone, when it became all about United and nothing and no-one else.

And as usual when people at a distance from the thing get their greedy marketing mitts on something like this, they messed it up, culminating in the farce that was the 1998 testimonial on behalf of those who had lost their lives 40 years before. The obscene amount of money paid to secure Eric Cantona's involvement in that game when, yet again, ordinary people were asked to dip their hands in their pockets, was grossly insulting. 'Munich' has become, in the hands of these people, part of the 'branding' to be exploited, that is quite clear..

However, none of United's actions/behaviours justifies anyone chanting vile obscenities regarding the Munich air disaster. When I hear our fellow Blues use this awful event to poke fun at our Red rivals, I despair at their stupidity and crass insensitivity. Like other Blues on here today, I've noticed that it has reduced over recent years (largely, I think, because of the outstanding behaviour of Blues at the 2008 50th commemoration at the OId Trafford derby). I hope it will disappear completely. And when Munich is commemorated in the future, I also hope it will be the city's loss at the heart of it.

This should be seen by not just us blues but other supporters . Fantastic post and from the heart

 

[Maly]

No, my point was the same tossers who would regularly sing Munich songs at the time would still sing them after that day and think nothing of it. They didn’t that day because of the potential backlash from our own fans and how much our club would have got slated for it. It wasn’t about respect for the victims as it carried on at many away games In concourses and in pubs after.

Obviously I’m talking about a minority of our fans and with things like this it is always a minority. Basically the little hypocrites bottled it that day and nobody can really say those idiots who carried it on after were respectful to the victims because it was never about that to them.

Yes it did prove we were impeccable that day. Again, really surprised you’ve stated that you disagree with that point right at the top of your post

However, your point makes more sense now you’ve explained what ‘proved nothing’ means.

Let’s hope our fans are impeccable again today at Anfield, like we were for the Hillsborough (or was it Hysel) memorial the other year ;)

Up the fucking blues......

 

[radcliffe1309]

Well said..

One of my earliest memories is being hoiked up onto The Old Man's shoulders to see United's 1958 Cup Final team being greeted at the Town Hall in Albert Square. To give him a rest, our neighbour from Hulme (who was a season ticket holder at Old Trafford along with his wife, both of them watching United home and away for many years) also let me sit on his shoulders to see above the crowd. My aunts and uncles were there too, all Blues mixing with their Red friends to honour the team that had defied the odds after that dreadful air disaster.

Because it was the city's disaster as much as anything else. We shouted for Matt Busby because he had been a Blue in the great City side of but 20 years before, along with Frank Swift who had died in the crash. Nearer to home, my mother had been a babysitter as a young woman to Albert Scanlon, who survived the crash. She would have been devastated if he'd been one of those who lost their lives that day.

Growing up in the 60s, the disaster only came back into our consciousness as kids when on February 6th notices would appear in the Manchester Evening News' 'In Memoriam' column. There would always be something from Duncan Edwards' family, together with Roger Byrne's, David Pegg's and Tommy Taylor's families. I recall as a student on the 15th anniversary in 1973 posting a newspaper clipping which had the complete poem 'Flowers Of Manchester' on a university noticeboard. Nobody touched it or desecrated it. Because it was the city's tragedy.

Sadly, United haven't covered themselves with glory in dealing with the tragedy. In the 60s, the treatment of the players and other staff was frankly appalling (forcing players and their families out of club houses, minimal financial support, not even a whiff of a testimonial to generate funds to support those affected and so on and so on). The initial 'strategy' always seemed to be 'benign ignorance' and not to allow themselves to be opened up to legal challenges.. if we don't mention it, it and everyone will go away.. and our supine press/media was complicit in this, never highlighting what was going on, hardly ever mentioning the Munich disaster until February 6th loomed again..

I spoke with Albert Scanlon on a few occasions in the 70s when I was a student and would occasionally meet my parents in town of a Saturday night for a drink with them at Sinclair's Oyster Bar when they would often bump into Albert. He was clearly very upset about the way he and others had been treated by United post-Munich. On the other hand, they had put up a clock at Old Trafford, so that was that, then..

Fast forward to the early 90s. Time had passed, fans from various clubs including our own had long begun the dreadful chanting that referenced the Munich air disaster and football was beginning to gear up for the modern age that we now know, involving not just mega-bucks sponsorships and tv deals but also Stock Market flotations of clubs and the like. United led the UK charge on all of these things. And that's when the Marketing Johnnies started taking over our great game. It isn't unfair, I believe, to state that this was the time when the Munich air disaster was slowly turned into a marketing tool by these people, becoming part of the legend of the club alone, when it became all about United and nothing and no-one else.

And as usual when people at a distance from the thing get their greedy marketing mitts on something like this, they messed it up, culminating in the farce that was the 1998 testimonial on behalf of those who had lost their lives 40 years before. The obscene amount of money paid to secure Eric Cantona's involvement in that game when, yet again, ordinary people were asked to dip their hands in their pockets, was grossly insulting. 'Munich' has become, in the hands of these people, part of the 'branding' to be exploited, that is quite clear..

However, none of United's actions/behaviours justifies anyone chanting vile obscenities regarding the Munich air disaster. When I hear our fellow Blues use this awful event to poke fun at our Red rivals, I despair at their stupidity and crass insensitivity. Like other Blues on here today, I've noticed that it has reduced over recent years (largely, I think, because of the outstanding behaviour of Blues at the 2008 50th commemoration at the OId Trafford derby). I hope it will disappear completely. And when Munich is commemorated in the future, I also hope it will be the city's loss at the heart of it.

Really enjoyed reading this, it's so well written, and I agree with the other comment that it would be good if not only our fans took time to read it but fans of other clubs do also.

 

[Bluesince1979]

RIP to ALL who perished. Awful. Unimaginable

Never been comfortable with the way the club have kind of milked it over the years. The testimonial match, sponsored by AIG. The way ‘eric the king’ Charged more to appear than the beneficiaries received, the way the survivors and widows were quickly turfed out of the club houses.
Theres a lot united, as a club, shouldnt be too proud of in the way they have behaved. The victims deserved so much better.

like liverpool they almost glory in it, where as a lot of clubs who have suffered disasters, bradfors, bolton, rangers, torino, remember with a lot of dignity

sorry if that all sounded out of line. It really isnt meant to and i respect those that perished as much as the next man

 

[bluebarry]

Well said..

One of my earliest memories is being hoiked up onto The Old Man's shoulders to see United's 1958 Cup Final team being greeted at the Town Hall in Albert Square. To give him a rest, our neighbour from Hulme (who was a season ticket holder at Old Trafford along with his wife, both of them watching United home and away for many years) also let me sit on his shoulders to see above the crowd. My aunts and uncles were there too, all Blues mixing with their Red friends to honour the team that had defied the odds after that dreadful air disaster.

Because it was the city's disaster as much as anything else. We shouted for Matt Busby because he had been a Blue in the great City side of but 20 years before, along with Frank Swift who had died in the crash. Nearer to home, my mother had been a babysitter as a young woman to Albert Scanlon, who survived the crash. She would have been devastated if he'd been one of those who lost their lives that day.

Growing up in the 60s, the disaster only came back into our consciousness as kids when on February 6th notices would appear in the Manchester Evening News' 'In Memoriam' column. There would always be something from Duncan Edwards' family, together with Roger Byrne's, David Pegg's and Tommy Taylor's families. I recall as a student on the 15th anniversary in 1973 posting a newspaper clipping which had the complete poem 'Flowers Of Manchester' on a university noticeboard. Nobody touched it or desecrated it. Because it was the city's tragedy.

Sadly, United haven't covered themselves with glory in dealing with the tragedy. In the 60s, the treatment of the players and other staff was frankly appalling (forcing players and their families out of club houses, minimal financial support, not even a whiff of a testimonial to generate funds to support those affected and so on and so on). The initial 'strategy' always seemed to be 'benign ignorance' and not to allow themselves to be opened up to legal challenges.. if we don't mention it, it and everyone will go away.. and our supine press/media was complicit in this, never highlighting what was going on, hardly ever mentioning the Munich disaster until February 6th loomed again..

I spoke with Albert Scanlon on a few occasions in the 70s when I was a student and would occasionally meet my parents in town of a Saturday night for a drink with them at Sinclair's Oyster Bar when they would often bump into Albert. He was clearly very upset about the way he and others had been treated by United post-Munich. On the other hand, they had put up a clock at Old Trafford, so that was that, then..

Fast forward to the early 90s. Time had passed, fans from various clubs including our own had long begun the dreadful chanting that referenced the Munich air disaster and football was beginning to gear up for the modern age that we now know, involving not just mega-bucks sponsorships and tv deals but also Stock Market flotations of clubs and the like. United led the UK charge on all of these things. And that's when the Marketing Johnnies started taking over our great game. It isn't unfair, I believe, to state that this was the time when the Munich air disaster was slowly turned into a marketing tool by these people, becoming part of the legend of the club alone, when it became all about United and nothing and no-one else.

And as usual when people at a distance from the thing get their greedy marketing mitts on something like this, they messed it up, culminating in the farce that was the 1998 testimonial on behalf of those who had lost their lives 40 years before. The obscene amount of money paid to secure Eric Cantona's involvement in that game when, yet again, ordinary people were asked to dip their hands in their pockets, was grossly insulting. 'Munich' has become, in the hands of these people, part of the 'branding' to be exploited, that is quite clear..

However, none of United's actions/behaviours justifies anyone chanting vile obscenities regarding the Munich air disaster. When I hear our fellow Blues use this awful event to poke fun at our Red rivals, I despair at their stupidity and crass insensitivity. Like other Blues on here today, I've noticed that it has reduced over recent years (largely, I think, because of the outstanding behaviour of Blues at the 2008 50th commemoration at the OId Trafford derby). I hope it will disappear completely. And when Munich is commemorated in the future, I also hope it will be the city's loss at the heart of it.

An excellent piece John. You remind me of the bloke that sits next to me at the Etihad!

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Well said..

One of my earliest memories is being hoiked up onto The Old Man's shoulders to see United's 1958 Cup Final team being greeted at the Town Hall in Albert Square. To give him a rest, our neighbour from Hulme (who was a season ticket holder at Old Trafford along with his wife, both of them watching United home and away for many years) also let me sit on his shoulders to see above the crowd. My aunts and uncles were there too, all Blues mixing with their Red friends to honour the team that had defied the odds after that dreadful air disaster.

Because it was the city's disaster as much as anything else. We shouted for Matt Busby because he had been a Blue in the great City side of but 20 years before, along with Frank Swift who had died in the crash. Nearer to home, my mother had been a babysitter as a young woman to Albert Scanlon, who survived the crash. She would have been devastated if he'd been one of those who lost their lives that day.

Growing up in the 60s, the disaster only came back into our consciousness as kids when on February 6th notices would appear in the Manchester Evening News' 'In Memoriam' column. There would always be something from Duncan Edwards' family, together with Roger Byrne's, David Pegg's and Tommy Taylor's families. I recall as a student on the 15th anniversary in 1973 posting a newspaper clipping which had the complete poem 'Flowers Of Manchester' on a university noticeboard. Nobody touched it or desecrated it. Because it was the city's tragedy.

Sadly, United haven't covered themselves with glory in dealing with the tragedy. In the 60s, the treatment of the players and other staff was frankly appalling (forcing players and their families out of club houses, minimal financial support, not even a whiff of a testimonial to generate funds to support those affected and so on and so on). The initial 'strategy' always seemed to be 'benign ignorance' and not to allow themselves to be opened up to legal challenges.. if we don't mention it, it and everyone will go away.. and our supine press/media was complicit in this, never highlighting what was going on, hardly ever mentioning the Munich disaster until February 6th loomed again..

I spoke with Albert Scanlon on a few occasions in the 70s when I was a student and would occasionally meet my parents in town of a Saturday night for a drink with them at Sinclair's Oyster Bar when they would often bump into Albert. He was clearly very upset about the way he and others had been treated by United post-Munich. On the other hand, they had put up a clock at Old Trafford, so that was that, then..

Fast forward to the early 90s. Time had passed, fans from various clubs including our own had long begun the dreadful chanting that referenced the Munich air disaster and football was beginning to gear up for the modern age that we now know, involving not just mega-bucks sponsorships and tv deals but also Stock Market flotations of clubs and the like. United led the UK charge on all of these things. And that's when the Marketing Johnnies started taking over our great game. It isn't unfair, I believe, to state that this was the time when the Munich air disaster was slowly turned into a marketing tool by these people, becoming part of the legend of the club alone, when it became all about United and nothing and no-one else.

And as usual when people at a distance from the thing get their greedy marketing mitts on something like this, they messed it up, culminating in the farce that was the 1998 testimonial on behalf of those who had lost their lives 40 years before. The obscene amount of money paid to secure Eric Cantona's involvement in that game when, yet again, ordinary people were asked to dip their hands in their pockets, was grossly insulting. 'Munich' has become, in the hands of these people, part of the 'branding' to be exploited, that is quite clear..

However, none of United's actions/behaviours justifies anyone chanting vile obscenities regarding the Munich air disaster. When I hear our fellow Blues use this awful event to poke fun at our Red rivals, I despair at their stupidity and crass insensitivity. Like other Blues on here today, I've noticed that it has reduced over recent years (largely, I think, because of the outstanding behaviour of Blues at the 2008 50th commemoration at the OId Trafford derby). I hope it will disappear completely. And when Munich is commemorated in the future, I also hope it will be the city's loss at the heart of it.

Great post!

Frank Swift is true a City legend. Played for City for 16 years, the longest serving City player ever (although didn’t play the most games). Was England’s War Time and post-War #1 while at City (at times while City were in Div2), and was part of the 1934 FA Cup and 1937 League title winning sides.

I raise this every year, but Frank Swift’s family live in Manchester and are City fans. I always wonder when a Munich chant has ever started somewhere (and you do still hear them from time-to-time in pubs at away games, often started by younger lads), “what if Frank Swift’s family were in here?!”

Even Matt Busby played in midfield for City for eight years and over 200 games, part of those FA Cup and League title winning sides.

As you say, United acted very poorly towards survivors and widowed families; I actually remember hearing that United paid Cantona out of the money raised for the Munich Memorial fund for that Memorial game; and commercialising their memorial poster with a sponsor:

And to be honest these things shouldn’t be forgotten about, especially if it is commercialised further.

But they also shouldn’t be reasons people bring up the name “Munichs” or sing about the tragedy or do airplane gestures to take the piss out of United fans because they’re taking the piss out of the memory and family of Frank Swift n’all.

Thankfully all these things are declining.