MUTINY by players.Konspiracy??.... We will see

[Blue2112]

This isnt correct. As was said yesterday, each of the top four (perhaps Arsenal in a different) are both a boot camp AND an academy of excellence, skill and football. The ONLY way to play 70 top class games a season is to be schooled like this.

This is very true. However the balance has to be right between the boot camp mentality and an academy of excellence etc. It also needs to be varied and interesting as it keeps the players fresh and engaged but within tightly defined parameters so that those individuals (and there are always some) cannot get away with taking the piss. All managers will approach the balance differently. As an example I understand Man U do not go for the intense physical approach pre season which is why they always start slowly but then build to a peak of physical and mental fitness as the season progresses.

And my earlier question remains. Does anyone actually know if Hughes training regime is effective or not? And if no one knows what the hell is everyone arguing about?

I don't know if his training methods are effective or not I suppose the proof will be shown over the next 6/12 months if he gets that time. One could argue that currently his training methods are failing as we seem to have a split camp. I know some of the things they've worked on, one in particular which is played at high tempo culminated with the Brazilians or more to the point one of them persistently slowing it down. He was on the bench the following day sat there with his trainers on. Other new ideas have been introduced that personally I see nothing wrong with and can only benefit the team and again some of them dont like it. Also I do know Hughes asks his defenders and forwards to each run a certain number of km's per game, same for his midfielders (think its 11 each for them) Ireland averages way above (14km's in some games) followed closely by Swp whilst Robinho, Elano etc fall way short, ok so they are different players with different attributes but its demanding for Ireland and Swp to continually run they're guts out each week for the others. Watch Stevie chase down midfielders time and again only to watch the ball passed sideways so that he has to run at least 10/20 yards to close another player down because his other midfielders aren't doing it themselves. They also have to run approx 3km at a fast tempo as a team unit, so all the short paced quick bursts of speed are added together, the idea is over a season this workrate will overpower most teams culminating in winning the ball more and winning more games.

 

[scall11]

All this centres around how you define 'training'.

It could range from being made to do laps of Carrington, to spending more time in the gym to having kickabouts more often or working on drills and set pieces.

I know Sven was soft on the players, but we were better of points wise with Sven that we are with Hughes this time last year.

I get the impression that Hughes hammers the players into training, not encouraging them to train. I'd imagine he never laughs and jokes with players, or has a nice side to him.

Ince, Keane and Hughes are all ex-players of Taggart. Taggart, as we all know rules the Swamp with an iron fist, he's the ultimate disciplinarian. But you often see him laughing and joking on the training pitch. I think Ince, Keane and Hughes have all tried to copy the Taggart way of management. But they can only do the discipline side, not the friendly, encouraging side that Taggart has.

 

[bondsman]

Does running a long way really win games though? Do we actually look fitter as a team im not sure we do, that isnt to say thats the coaches fault maybe the players arent doing as asked but we cant be that fit because we conceded so many in the later stages of games.

 

[Disturbance]

So the way to win in the Premier League is to run further than the opposition? Genius

 

[Blue Mooner]

Not sure of the truth in this rumour but if Hughes is making the training hard I can't see any downside except for the shirkers who got used to the Butlins holiday camp under Sven.

Still, Sven made those holiday campers win matches. Hughes don't.

In fact, Sven has made his holiday campers win games wherever he has been. He made his holiday campers at IFK Gothenburg win the UEFA cup, he made the holiday campers at Benfica win the portuguese league and cup, he made the holiday campers at Lazio win the Scudetto and the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup - and he made the lazy bastards at City end up as a top ten team in the Premier League.

What I'm saying is that there is more to running a football team than just boot camp.

EriKsson hadn't been a club manager for over 6 years when he joined City and there is no doubt that training a national side is wholly different from training a club side every day, where you are responsible for the fitness of the players.

6 years is a long time out of club football management and I would wager that a lot has changed in approaches in that time. DOn't forget that Eriksson also spent circa £274 million under Lazio so anybody could have got success having spent that much. That's what a lot of fans are forgetting now. WE HAVE THE MONEY, so some fans need to chill out and enjoy the ride.

It is also clear that Capello fundamentally disagrees with the philospophy of Eriksson who allowed the WAGS to join the players at the World Cup and Capello's approach is far more aligned to that of Hughes.

Of course the slackers would be happier under the Sven regime and they may perform better for a manager like that but 'TRUE' winners dedicate themselves to their jobs - as we all have to do when we are at work !

Hughes was schooled at Man U (sorry to remind everyone) and I'm prepared to back his approach based on the success the rags have enjoyed under fergiescum

 

[Blue Mooner]

So the way to win in the Premier League is to run further than the opposition? Genius

Read Summerbee's book you might learn something. It's called fitness, dedication to your job and professionaliam.

 

[bondsman]

Fair enough but Robson, Ince, Keane, Hughes, McClaren, all had baconface as an influence doesnt mean anything. Like saying I played upfront with Pele at school, doesnt mean ill be able to do what he did.

 

[Anonymous]

But who am I to argue against Hughes PR.

You're not, you're arguing against facts.

And I don't recall the last time I read a post by ANYONE on this board stating that all our problems were down to under-performing players. However, they have played a large part in the problems we've had...

Or do you dispute this too?

 

[stony]

I don't know if his training methods are effective or not I suppose the proof will be shown over the next 6/12 months if he gets that time. One could argue that currently his training methods are failing as we seem to have a split camp. I know some of the things they've worked on, one in particular which is played at high tempo culminated with the Brazilians or more to the point one of them persistently slowing it down. He was on the bench the following day sat there with his trainers on. Other new ideas have been introduced that personally I see nothing wrong with and can only benefit the team and again some of them dont like it. Also I do know Hughes asks his defenders and forwards to each run a certain number of km's per game, same for his midfielders (think its 11 each for them) Ireland averages way above (14km's in some games) followed closely by Swp whilst Robinho, Elano etc fall way short, ok so they are different players with different attributes but its demanding for Ireland and Swp to continually run they're guts out each week for the others. Watch Stevie chase down midfielders time and again only to watch the ball passed sideways so that he has to run at least 10/20 yards to close another player down because his other midfielders aren't doing it themselves. They also have to run approx 3km at a fast tempo as a team unit, so all the short paced quick bursts of speed are added together, the idea is over a season this workrate will overpower most teams culminating in winning the ball more and winning more games.

Be careful not to post anything too positive, you will be accused of being part of Hughes PR team.

 

[mammutly]

This feeling of the training ground being "like a prison" is totally spot on. The qoute btw is from one of the younger members who trains at carrington and has told me a lot of the players don't like the manager and that he doesn't help himself by being rude to the players especially the younger ones who he doesn't even acknowledge.

I have heard that too.

I also find the OP entirely credible. Hughes is as tough a coach as he was a player. His character remains unchanged.

I have one question to add to this debate and it's this:

Why would a competent boss of any organisation simply dismiss feedback from the staff and go so far as to say, in effect, if you don't like my way, there's the door?

If the players mentioned are in fact shown the door for daring to raise concerns, then you can bet that everybody who's anybody in world football will know about it and think very, very carefully before signing for City.

At the moment, things are precarious at the club and external help is badly needed, perhaps in the form of professional mediation.

If nothing is sorted out, players will leave and Hughes will be feared and resented by a lot of those that remain.

The hugely important unknown is Robinho, who has stayed out of this so far and who MH has left alone, even when he hasn't given 100%. I wonder why?