flb
Well-Known Member
How else do you expect Hughes to defend himself-why shouldnt us the paying public know whats going on at our club-for christs sake we all keep moaning about how crap we are!
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MUTINY by players.Konspiracy??.... We will see
- Thread starter CooperMcfcF/W
- Start date
flb said:How else do you expect Hughes to defend himself-why shouldnt us the paying public know whats going on at our club-for christs sake we all keep moaning about how crap we are!
Because it damages performances, rather than improves them.
Would you support Elano going into the press and criticising Hughes training and management style? Why shouldnt us the paying public know whats going on at the club?
flb
Well-Known Member
moomba-yes i agree but in reality things are going to get worse before they get better-the difference now is we have the money to actually give a manager proper time to sort it.If the owners are happy to give Hughes time then we should stick with it or are we going to start chanting sack the board again?
I say let Hughes mould his own side and if it still is shite after a good settling period then yes lets question him.
I say let Hughes mould his own side and if it still is shite after a good settling period then yes lets question him.
flb said:moomba-yes i agree but in reality things are going to get worse before they get better
Why does this have to be the case? Our mentality should be to improve every season, and the fact that we won't this season is something that can't be ignored.
flb
Well-Known Member
its never got really better each season for the last thirty years-moomba do you agree that Hughes has bought well?
flb said:its never got really better each season for the last thirty years-moomba do you agree that Hughes has bought well?
We're a different proposition now than we've been for the past 30 years.
And I think Hughes has bought well (especially when he absolves himself from any blame for the TBH and Jo signings, surprisingly not the Robinho one).
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Anonymous
Guest
Strikes me, and i could be proven wrong in the next week or so, that our owners have a firm belief in what MH is doing. All this nonsense that is posted on messageboards about how he'll be out in the summer is...well, nonsense. Hughes has obviously rattled so many cages, coupled with so many poor results, it would be child's play for the board to sack him this window, and move on...
They clearly believe in what he's doing, as do the senior players who have been our stand out performers so far this season. So personally, I think it's time for the sniping about Hughes to stop, or at least be tempered with a little more objectivity.
They clearly believe in what he's doing, as do the senior players who have been our stand out performers so far this season. So personally, I think it's time for the sniping about Hughes to stop, or at least be tempered with a little more objectivity.
flb
Well-Known Member
moomba-Hughes hasnt absolved himself from the Robinho signing that just a fans and media assumption.
On the basis we agree hes signed well then isnt it only fair we let him mould a complete squad of his own and then judge him.Why do we as fans put players on a pedastal when its blatantly obvious they dont give a shite about us the fans?
On the basis we agree hes signed well then isnt it only fair we let him mould a complete squad of his own and then judge him.Why do we as fans put players on a pedastal when its blatantly obvious they dont give a shite about us the fans?
moomba said:flb said:its never got really better each season for the last thirty years-moomba do you agree that Hughes has bought well?
We're a different proposition now than we've been for the past 30 years.
And I think Hughes has bought well (especially when he absolves himself from any blame for the TBH and Jo signings, surprisingly not the Robinho one).
I think Moomba makes some good points. Certainly on the signings, didnt Hughes make it very clear he had a veto on Jo/TBH? If so they have to be included in judging his record in the market.
But surely we all agree he's done a poor job, the only question is could anyone who is available to come in do a better one if we sack him tomorrow. I suspect until the summer the answer is "probably not",
julio jordio
Well-Known Member
My, my. That was an interesting 27 page read. Not much in the form of positive news but some very intelligent posts that are helping me to form an opinion. I agree with what most people say in this thread whether it's backing the players or the manager (this is clearly what it's come down to) and I find myself somewhere in the middle. I admittedly form my opinion, like most blues, by what I see (on the pitch with my own eyes) and what I hear from inside the club (the press and people whose opinions I've learnt to trust, some on here, some not).
Thanks to the people who post on here with snippets of well informed details of what the fuck is going on because it's difficult to be objective with the amount of rubbish the gutter press print (Does EVERY tabloid journalist hate us?)
I know some people find it hard to believe some of the ITK info they read on here and with good reason but sometimes theres got to be a bit of trust. Why people choose to lie is beyond me and it makes it even more frustrating when you're own posts are dismissed because of this. It's happened to me many times, granted I've posted things that haven't come off but they were true at the time I was told them. A lot of the stuff I've read in these pages makes sense and tallies up with what I've heard from people within the club. I am however very surprised that nobody has mentioned SWP's comments a few weeks ago, backing the manager and suggesting that some players aren't working hard enough. It seems to me that there are players who resent the way in which the manager is going about his job and are revolting and then there are players (as somebody suggested earlier, our better players) that are angry at the way these players are conducting themselves. Either way it will come to a head and we'll prosper when the air is cleared in the future. Attitude can outweigh ability.
Thanks to the people who post on here with snippets of well informed details of what the fuck is going on because it's difficult to be objective with the amount of rubbish the gutter press print (Does EVERY tabloid journalist hate us?)
I know some people find it hard to believe some of the ITK info they read on here and with good reason but sometimes theres got to be a bit of trust. Why people choose to lie is beyond me and it makes it even more frustrating when you're own posts are dismissed because of this. It's happened to me many times, granted I've posted things that haven't come off but they were true at the time I was told them. A lot of the stuff I've read in these pages makes sense and tallies up with what I've heard from people within the club. I am however very surprised that nobody has mentioned SWP's comments a few weeks ago, backing the manager and suggesting that some players aren't working hard enough. It seems to me that there are players who resent the way in which the manager is going about his job and are revolting and then there are players (as somebody suggested earlier, our better players) that are angry at the way these players are conducting themselves. Either way it will come to a head and we'll prosper when the air is cleared in the future. Attitude can outweigh ability.
flb said:On the basis we agree hes signed well then isnt it only fair we let him mould a complete squad of his own and then judge him.Why do we as fans put players on a pedastal when its blatantly obvious they dont give a shite about us the fans?
No we should judge him on his ability to manage a club, if he can't manage players he doesn't sign he's not good enough for us.
And I'm not absolving players of the blame whatsoever. Like Hughes, if they're not good enough they will be moved on.
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Anonymous
Guest
moomba said:No we should judge him on his ability to manage a club, if he can't manage players he doesn't sign he's not good enough for us.
Rubbish, some players are unmanageable and as such, need to be removed for there to be harmony at a club.
And I'm not absolving players of the blame whatsoever. Like Hughes, if they're not good enough they will be moved on.
The players are being moved on...Hughes isn't. So, like it or not, the powers that be think Hughes is good enough...in fact, the players that be, you know, the ones performing, the ones who we would consider the "bright sparks" in our season, also believe in Hughes. Think he IS the right man to take us forward.
I find it increasingly comical that people on here think they have a better idea of who is a suitable manager for City than the players themselves...
der-bomber
Well-Known Member
In the past at City all the cliques and attitude problems were appeased and any controversy was swept under the carpet.
Now we have a manager with a pair of bollocks who is prepared to take these jokers to task and sort it out once and for all.
Get with the programme or bye-bye.....
Now we have a manager with a pair of bollocks who is prepared to take these jokers to task and sort it out once and for all.
Get with the programme or bye-bye.....
BillyShears said:Rubbish, some players are unmanageable and as such, need to be removed for there to be harmony at a club.
I suspect we have none of those players.
The players are being moved on...Hughes isn't. So, like it or not, the powers that be think Hughes is good enough...in fact, the players that be, you know, the ones performing, the ones who we would consider the "bright sparks" in our season, also believe in Hughes. Think he IS the right man to take us forward.
I find it increasingly comical that people on here think they have a better idea of who is a suitable manager for City than the players themselves...
Like I said "if they're not good enough they will be moved on". Nothing incorrect with that statement, no need to jump at shadows.
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Anonymous
Guest
moomba said:I suspect we have none of those players.I think you're wrong there Moomba. Elano is absolutely that type of player.
Fair enough...good point, well made.
OB1
Well-Known Member
Well it's a bloody well informed opinion because it comes from one of the City players.
Nixon_The_Bike_Thief
Well-Known Member
Irrespective of what may or may not be widely reported now all I want to know is,
Which is it ? after all you posted these two messages less than 15 mins apart ?
Which is it ? after all you posted these two messages less than 15 mins apart ?
5knuckleshuffle said:What i type is what i was told by my source who had a son in this meeting.
5knuckleshuffle said:As i said its a rumour, make of it what you will. Its probably 4th hand.
bizzbo
Well-Known Member
heres a theory without much to back it up:
I believe MH new of the problems within the squad all along. FWIW i believe Sven realised roughly the same thing around christmas last year. I believe MH's initial strategy, under thaksin, was one of containment, of minimising the impact that this had on results.
didnt things really go south shortly after MH's meeting with Mansour? Mansour came back and said "his strategy is compelling" "he has my absolute mandate". MH made some interesting comments about the way that Mansour and co valued 'trust' above everything else?.
So I am tempted to believe that as a result of their meeting, having convinced Mansour that these issues would always undermine the club unless they were addressed, MH was, perhaps explicitly, given a mandate to address these issues directly. Mansour would have been aware that things could get messy, as indeed they have. From his point of view, it makes sense to let MH do the dirty work, even if he fails and has to be replaced, it will make the club a healthier prospect for any other manager who comes in.
I believe they probably would have faith that he is the man to perform the necessary surgery, that they were impressed and grateful that he had the courage and vision to identify and present them with unpalatable truths. However, they are not going to commit themselves publicly to MH beyond this season. being pragmatic, they would realise that there is a chance he might fail to do so. so it would be fair to say that progress this season would primarily be adressing the problems, and laying the foundation for what is to come. doing this satisfactorily would earn him a second year to deliver success that would be more tangible, a neat way for a man without a proven track record at the levels the owners are aiming at, to prove himself, step-by-step.
anyway, had thaksin remained and money been short, MH would have been wise to pursue a conservative strategy, contain/ignore underlying issues, keep people sweet, in order to give himself the best chance at achieving the more modest short term goals. under this scenario, Jo and Elano, for example would have been far more important, central, even, to what the club was going to achieve, and to add a touch of glamour to proceedings. thus they would probably have been managed quite differently. as things turned out, robinho has all the glamour, so if Jo and Elano were to stay it would have to be on the same terms as everyone else. Understandably both may suddenly have felt insecure in their positions when ADG arrived. They could have been protected, but it seems that MH did not do so. This is the crux of it. I believe that was a concious decision, not to damage their performances deliberately, which would have been unthinkable, but to find out how both reacted when left to their own devices. The questions were effectively asked of both, how comitted are you, how much do you believe in yourself, how much can you put in, how much will you let yourselves be moulded by our ideas. and both have failed to come up with the correct answers. in the short term, it's a loss, because you've had two players underperforming, but in the long term, it's a win, because you know exactly who you are dealing with, and can decide wether to keep them or not based on that. please understand i am using Jo and Elano as examples. the same is basically true of everyone within the squad. the outcome is just particularly clear with these two.
I think many of us are starting to come up with a heirachy of who is who at the club, with the likes of SWP and Ireland at the front, and the Hamann's and such at the back. it's even possible to discern the damage that has already been done by the underlying negativity to some of our young players. Jim Cassell and co turn out fantastic young players, and none of them deserves to end up as damaged goods after a season or two in the first year. that damage cannot be allowed to continue.
I believe MH new of the problems within the squad all along. FWIW i believe Sven realised roughly the same thing around christmas last year. I believe MH's initial strategy, under thaksin, was one of containment, of minimising the impact that this had on results.
didnt things really go south shortly after MH's meeting with Mansour? Mansour came back and said "his strategy is compelling" "he has my absolute mandate". MH made some interesting comments about the way that Mansour and co valued 'trust' above everything else?.
So I am tempted to believe that as a result of their meeting, having convinced Mansour that these issues would always undermine the club unless they were addressed, MH was, perhaps explicitly, given a mandate to address these issues directly. Mansour would have been aware that things could get messy, as indeed they have. From his point of view, it makes sense to let MH do the dirty work, even if he fails and has to be replaced, it will make the club a healthier prospect for any other manager who comes in.
I believe they probably would have faith that he is the man to perform the necessary surgery, that they were impressed and grateful that he had the courage and vision to identify and present them with unpalatable truths. However, they are not going to commit themselves publicly to MH beyond this season. being pragmatic, they would realise that there is a chance he might fail to do so. so it would be fair to say that progress this season would primarily be adressing the problems, and laying the foundation for what is to come. doing this satisfactorily would earn him a second year to deliver success that would be more tangible, a neat way for a man without a proven track record at the levels the owners are aiming at, to prove himself, step-by-step.
anyway, had thaksin remained and money been short, MH would have been wise to pursue a conservative strategy, contain/ignore underlying issues, keep people sweet, in order to give himself the best chance at achieving the more modest short term goals. under this scenario, Jo and Elano, for example would have been far more important, central, even, to what the club was going to achieve, and to add a touch of glamour to proceedings. thus they would probably have been managed quite differently. as things turned out, robinho has all the glamour, so if Jo and Elano were to stay it would have to be on the same terms as everyone else. Understandably both may suddenly have felt insecure in their positions when ADG arrived. They could have been protected, but it seems that MH did not do so. This is the crux of it. I believe that was a concious decision, not to damage their performances deliberately, which would have been unthinkable, but to find out how both reacted when left to their own devices. The questions were effectively asked of both, how comitted are you, how much do you believe in yourself, how much can you put in, how much will you let yourselves be moulded by our ideas. and both have failed to come up with the correct answers. in the short term, it's a loss, because you've had two players underperforming, but in the long term, it's a win, because you know exactly who you are dealing with, and can decide wether to keep them or not based on that. please understand i am using Jo and Elano as examples. the same is basically true of everyone within the squad. the outcome is just particularly clear with these two.
I think many of us are starting to come up with a heirachy of who is who at the club, with the likes of SWP and Ireland at the front, and the Hamann's and such at the back. it's even possible to discern the damage that has already been done by the underlying negativity to some of our young players. Jim Cassell and co turn out fantastic young players, and none of them deserves to end up as damaged goods after a season or two in the first year. that damage cannot be allowed to continue.