mackenzie said:But it will take a Manager who is allowed to do the job from beginning to end I think. We can't keep having Managers who keep inheriting some other Managers "deadwood" (and I use that term in a very loose way) because all we keep getting is a transition.
Not saying Hughes IS the answer, but lets please get someone who can really stamp his identity on this Club?
Alex Harley said:Wether we are talking about a mutiny or a conspiracy against what the players perceive as an inept manager,what I want is to see is 11 players sweating blood for Manchester City on the pitch.If they are deemed to be "professional" we have seen only glimpses of it in recent weeks.
If you get well paid to do a job then do it and sort differences out after or ask for a transfer.
What we witnessed on Saturday,at Blackburn for 85minutes,West Brom and at home to Everton is far short of what the suppoorters deserve.
In my 51 years of supporting City I have seen some dark times but what has annoyed me this season is the total indifference to the situation that the players have found themselves in in certain games
As for training we were just as bad in the second half of last season with the so called "laissez faire" training methods of Sven as we are under Sgt Major Hughes's methods The only conclusion can be that we have players who either don't care wether they are inconsistent under what ever regime is in charge
I have worked for good bosses and those who were bastards but you were paid to do a job so thats what you did wether or not you liked whoever was in charge or not
If the board at City recognise that certain players are not seen to be toeing the line they will back Hughes to the hilt as all bosses always back up their middle management Any going over managements head and appealing to a higher level is always ignored As it seems by reports from after Saturdays game Hughes appears to have the ear and backing of those in power so expect the dissenters to be eased out,
As for Dunne a shadow of the player we have seen in recent seasons may be "piggy in the middle" as club captain would be the first port of call by those with any axe to grind
The galling thing is for the most part the same group of players have produced magical performances inbetween playing like idiots.
Who knows what the solution may be but I pray these problems we appear to have are resolved quickly as I dont want any more time spent outside the top tier of English football At least my bachelor days were spent following a fairy tale rise to the summit of the English game I was 30yo last time we won anything of note and am now 62 and haven't the time left to wait for success to come around that I have craved for such along time
mr t said:Bluebeer said:Only a fortnight previously, a group of players, prominently featuring Brazilian Elano and Israeli defender Tal Ben Haim, called a team meeting with the express purpose of denegrating Hughes's tactics.
One player - no longer in the squad - recently went to Cook to complain (unsuccessfully) about the manager.
Against this background, it is clear why Hughes feels the need to shake up his squad and isolate those who appear to have lost the desire to play for him.
Michael Ball, Didi Hamann, Elano and Jo would not figure in another Hughes team in his ideal world.
Who is the player no longer in the squad - Is it Tal Ben Haim?
I ask this because after the Santander game my mate told me that both he and Elano had been told that they would never play for City again. Now Elano is on the scene but as for Ben Haim................
Alex Harley said:Wether we are talking about a mutiny or a conspiracy against what the players perceive as an inept manager,what I want is to see is 11 players sweating blood for Manchester City on the pitch.If they are deemed to be "professional" we have seen only glimpses of it in recent weeks.
If you get well paid to do a job then do it and sort differences out after or ask for a transfer.
What we witnessed on Saturday,at Blackburn for 85minutes,West Brom and at home to Everton is far short of what the suppoorters deserve.
In my 51 years of supporting City I have seen some dark times but what has annoyed me this season is the total indifference to the situation that the players have found themselves in in certain games
As for training we were just as bad in the second half of last season with the so called "laissez faire" training methods of Sven as we are under Sgt Major Hughes's methods The only conclusion can be that we have players who either don't care wether they are inconsistent under what ever regime is in charge
I have worked for good bosses and those who were bastards but you were paid to do a job so thats what you did wether or not you liked whoever was in charge or not
If the board at City recognise that certain players are not seen to be toeing the line they will back Hughes to the hilt as all bosses always back up their middle management Any going over managements head and appealing to a higher level is always ignored As it seems by reports from after Saturdays game Hughes appears to have the ear and backing of those in power so expect the dissenters to be eased out,
As for Dunne a shadow of the player we have seen in recent seasons may be "piggy in the middle" as club captain would be the first port of call by those with any axe to grind
The galling thing is for the most part the same group of players have produced magical performances inbetween playing like idiots.
Who knows what the solution may be but I pray these problems we appear to have are resolved quickly as I dont want any more time spent outside the top tier of English football At least my bachelor days were spent following a fairy tale rise to the summit of the English game I was 30yo last time we won anything of note and am now 62 and haven't the time left to wait for success to come around that I have craved for such along time
Russ218 said:mr t said:Who is the player no longer in the squad - Is it Tal Ben Haim?
I ask this because after the Santander game my mate told me that both he and Elano had been told that they would never play for City again. Now Elano is on the scene but as for Ben Haim................
Ben Haim was a sub or played every match from 2/8/8 to 18/12/8, he's not been the team since 21/12/8. I checked here see if he has an injury. http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php. He's fit to play, i think.
Blue2112 said:I don't know if his training methods are effective or not I suppose the proof will be shown over the next 6/12 months if he gets that time. One could argue that currently his training methods are failing as we seem to have a split camp. I know some of the things they've worked on, one in particular which is played at high tempo culminated with the Brazilians or more to the point one of them persistently slowing it down. He was on the bench the following day sat there with his trainers on. Other new ideas have been introduced that personally I see nothing wrong with and can only benefit the team and again some of them dont like it. Also I do know Hughes asks his defenders and forwards to each run a certain number of km's per game, same for his midfielders (think its 11 each for them) Ireland averages way above (14km's in some games) followed closely by Swp whilst Robinho, Elano etc fall way short, ok so they are different players with different attributes but its demanding for Ireland and Swp to continually run they're guts out each week for the others. Watch Stevie chase down midfielders time and again only to watch the ball passed sideways so that he has to run at least 10/20 yards to close another player down because his other midfielders aren't doing it themselves. They also have to run approx 3km at a fast tempo as a team unit, so all the short paced quick bursts of speed are added together, the idea is over a season this workrate will overpower most teams culminating in winning the ball more and winning more games.
Disturbance said:So the way to win in the Premier League is to run further than the opposition? Genius
Alex Harley said:what I want is to see is 11 players sweating blood for Manchester City on the pitch.
OB1 said:projectriver said:I dont think anyone wants another Sven v Hughes debate but even if I accept the dead man walking theory, this doesnt explain the dire performances from November to March (ie before it even emerged that Sven was under serious threat)?
I wasn't expressing a theory.
Russ218 said:mr t said:Who is the player no longer in the squad - Is it Tal Ben Haim?
I ask this because after the Santander game my mate told me that both he and Elano had been told that they would never play for City again. Now Elano is on the scene but as for Ben Haim................
Ben Haim was a sub or played every match from 2/8/8 to 18/12/8, he's not been the team since 21/12/8. I checked here see if he has an injury. http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php. He's fit to play, i think.
Long, but good post. For my part, I think who's training techiques are right and who's are wrong, is a side issue. As you said... who on here really knows? Nobody. The issue, for me, is that Hughes is in charge. Like it or loathe, he's been given the job of running our team and that includes the training regime. If you're a player by all means disagree, even go home and have a grumble to the wife, but you're surely still under a contractual obligation to give it your all. The suggestion that the players have instead decided to stage some kind of protest doesn't reflect well on them at all. IF it is true.JohnMaddocksAxe said:Can I ask for serious answers to this qyestion and not a slanging match that other threads have developed into.
I'm addressing it to everyone who believes that it is possible that there may be some truth in this story (which includes me).
Do you not think that there is something strange when a group of experienced professional footballers, from all sorts of different backgrounds, come to the conclusion that the training methods and management techniques being used are bad for the club?
Instead of automatically writing it off as a disgrace and the players being soft, do we give no credence to the judgement of players like Dunne who have time and again proved that they are willing to sweat blood for this club?
Do the previous good, hardworking and professional characters of players like Dunne, Vassell, Hammann, Kompany, Ball, etc count for nothing?
Until the end of last season, when everyone has to admit that there were excpetional circumstances, these players have consistently been hardworking professional players, not scared of hard work and willing to put everything in for the shirt they are playing in.
Yet because they raise questions about the manager's techniques we are automatically writing them off as poncing leeches who constantly want to act in a manner that has previously been the opposite of everything their careers have stood for?
We are not talking about poncing trouble causers like Bellamay or Kieron Dyer here. We are talking about a man who has run through walls for this club, Richard Dunne, and a man who most would agree has always been the epitome of 'the model pro', regardless of ability, in Vassell.
Is there no possibility of the methods that Hughes is using, cmbined with his management style ever being open to examination and cross examination?
Cos this thread just seems to be full of people who automatically accept that if Hughes has implemented training regimes that all these players, from differing backgrounds and countries find poor, then that is no fault of Hughes and the players are just a bunch of twats. Even if that is the complete opposite of their character.
Furthermore, if, as has been suggested above, Hughes came in with details from Frank (hardly what people could call a stable, rational or reliable football source of knowledge) saying that all the players are twats, and has proceeded to carry these through even when the mad bastard has left, then wouldn't you expect some of the players to be unhappy that the word of a nutty politician, who the majrity of us accept knew fuck all about football and handled himself very badly at the end of the season, is being taken as read and their new manager has come in with an attitude that has already labelled them bastards?
Not looking for an argument but anything approaching a balanced view is lacking on this thread and I feel it's fair to post something questioning this from another angle.
moomba said:Alex Harley said:what I want is to see is 11 players sweating blood for Manchester City on the pitch.
I'd rather see 11 players that perform and get results, not bothered about whether they need to run around to do it (although personally I like those that do put in the effort(.
I guess it's the old Anelka v Dickov debate. Not being English I guess I'm not as tied to the huff and puff approach as others.
reni800 said:Interesting...
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2097664.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... 097664.ece</a>
"RICHARD DUNNE insists Manchester City’s billionaire board must stick by manager Mark Hughes.
Sparky is clinging on to his job by his fingertips, with City two points above the Premier League drop zone and out of the FA Cup after a 3-0 defeat to Nottingham Forest.
The club’s Arab owners have given him £100million to spend in the transfer window despite fans calling for his head.
And City skipper Dunne, 29, said: “The club need to keep backing him because the players believe what we are doing in training is right. Hopefully he will get the chance to show what he can do in the transfer market.
“We have had a couple of poor results and people have been too quick to point the finger. In training, the manager has been confident and telling us it will turn around — and that has helped the players.â€
I agree and of course you'd always rather have the results to show for it. But we haven't. Which is why I think Harley's point is valid. I DO want to see some passion and some pride. Some of our players, contrary to what is believed on here, do have considerable ability and if they played with a little more heart, I think we'd see them at the top of their game again. I'm not suggesting, as the OP is, that they're not performing on purpose, but their performance levels have dropped - no doubt about it. Yes, I know that Hughes is to blame in part, but so are they.moomba said:Alex Harley said:what I want is to see is 11 players sweating blood for Manchester City on the pitch.
I'd rather see 11 players that perform and get results, not bothered about whether they need to run around to do it (although personally I like those that do put in the effort(.
I guess it's the old Anelka v Dickov debate. Not being English I guess I'm not as tied to the huff and puff approach as others.