NATO, Get the F@#k Out...

Rascal said:
You like capitalism

Would you prefer equality?
Click to expand...
No, I live in the world that is, not what I dream it to be. Myself, I’m more Centre ground and cannot stand the current direction of travel in the UK but believing people like Putin won’t attack the UK because we aren’t in NATO is a pipe dream.

Are we forgetting why NATO was formed, didn’t it have something to do with actions past?

Wishful thinking of a communist or fully socialist society will only sully your day and even if it did come about you‘d only get some authoritarian taking power and using the position for their own means.
 
Rascal said:
BM has spoken then, NATO is great and nuclear weapons are brilliant and we have to them because Putin and they are pretty cheap for something that will never be used.

NATO nowadays though pretty much manages the risks caused by it being brought into existence. It should have been disbanded when the Berlin wall fell and the Warsaw pact disintegrated. A totally new organisation embracing both organisations dedicated to peace could have changed the world and negated the need for nuclear weapons. NATO though is now just a tool for capitalist imperialism and anyone against that will suffer the wrath of a world dominated by corporate interest, not working class interests.
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I couldn’t give a toss about ‘working class interests’. I’ve benefitted substantially from capitalism, and don’t want to see the end of my golden goose.

But mostly, I don’t want there to be any chance whatsoever of there ever being a nuclear war. We would all die, either instantly or slowly and painfully with no hope of any organised help. Watch the movie ‘Threads’.

We need the deterrent because cunts like Putin won’t be getting rid of theirs.
 
Rascal said:
BM has spoken then, NATO is great and nuclear weapons are brilliant and we have to them because Putin and they are pretty cheap for something that will never be used.

NATO nowadays though pretty much manages the risks caused by it being brought into existence. It should have been disbanded when the Berlin wall fell and the Warsaw pact disintegrated. A totally new organisation embracing both organisations dedicated to peace could have changed the world and negated the need for nuclear weapons. NATO though is now just a tool for capitalist imperialism and anyone against that will suffer the wrath of a world dominated by corporate interest, not working class interests.
Click to expand...
Genuine question: what do you propose as the alternative to NATO membership?
 
Rascal said:
BM has spoken then, NATO is great and nuclear weapons are brilliant and we have to them because Putin and they are pretty cheap for something that will never be used.

NATO nowadays though pretty much manages the risks caused by it being brought into existence. It should have been disbanded when the Berlin wall fell and the Warsaw pact disintegrated. A totally new organisation embracing both organisations dedicated to peace could have changed the world and negated the need for nuclear weapons. NATO though is now just a tool for capitalist imperialism and anyone against that will suffer the wrath of a world dominated by corporate interest, not working class interests.
Click to expand...
What is the real argument to get rid of them as in what is the actual reason? Is it out of pacificism or is it because you hold a theory that NATO is just an expression of participation in US capitalist led influence? The latter is pretty far-fetched given the state of the world at the moment. NATO and indirect western intervention is the only thing that stands in the way of total ruin for Ukraine but as a socialist maybe you're in favour of that anyway? I don't know.

If military and economic isolation is your goal then you can always vote for Nigel Farage or Donald Trump. The world isn't moving that way though, it's moving towards closer ties militarily and economically which for us is via NATO or to a degree the EU. The likes of Putin has always sought to destabilise these alliances because they take geopolitical power away from the eastern bloc however what is missed is that the eastern bloc countries actually want to move closer to the west.

The likes of Russia and China do not recognise democracy, they act alone on the whims of their leaders. If they get a bad leader as we now see with Putin then that's where nukes have to come in. In the UK the military doesn't even answer to Parliament. You cannot guarantee what will come over the next 50 years and that's why we have to have nukes. It isn't because we will ever use them but because we need to deter someone else.

In today's world the use of nuclear weapons would mean the end of the world. Nobody should ever build them with the assurance that they'll be used, if that happens then we're all dead. If having them means we virtually guarantee our safety then surely it's a price worth paying?

This also brings me to the point of nuclear blackmail which is another thing entirely because ask the Baltic states such as Georgia about nukes and aggressive neighbours? Maybe ask Taiwan or South Korea what they think of a possible reality of not being protected under the umbrella of a nuclear armed country? What about Israel too?
 
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Rascal said:
You like capitalism

Would you prefer equality?
Click to expand...
I don't think you really want equality either. You said in your earlier post that you want a society dominated by working class interests not corporate interests. I'd prefer a fairer society but one that isn't dominated by any particular part.
 
Semper aggressus said:
I couldn’t give a toss about ‘working class interests’. I’ve benefitted substantially from capitalism, and don’t want to see the end of my golden goose.

But mostly, I don’t want there to be any chance whatsoever of there ever being a nuclear war. We would all die, either instantly or slowly and painfully with no hope of any organised help. Watch the movie ‘Threads’.

We need the deterrent because cunts like Putin won’t be getting rid of theirs.
Click to expand...

Highly ironic calling anyone a **** after that first paragraph
 
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