Nedum Onuoha

[tonea2003]

My first post on this very good thread. Here goes....

1) As 1_Barry_Conlon posted earlier, whilst it is always great to achieve great things with your own homegrown players, our excellent production line has got us the grand total of sweet fuck all in 34 years (my lifetime) so the reaction to us getting rid of our 'local' lads may well be a bit OTT.

2) Ned has clearly been told by Mancini that he is not in his plans. Whilst sad, this is football. He's technically a better defender than Richards, Kompany and Zab and I'd rather he stayed, but Mancini's in charge and that's his decision. So, whilst I think Mancini is wrong on this one because Ned would probably be more than happy to provide back-up and be a good profesional, this doesn't excuse him going on national telly and airing his grievances. Keep it in-house.

3) Bellamy should shut his mouth and show some respect.

4) I've said it before and I'll say it again, whilst Mancini has clearly made mistakes during his time here, the players are coming across as spoilt little whinging backbiters and it seems even Ned, one of the most intelligent footballers you will ever care to meet, has now caught the bug. They're all acting like women in an office with all their sniping and I'm getting pretty sick of it to be honest. It's a shame we haven't got a true leader in the dressing room because I think this would have been nipped in the bud by now.

5) Serious question for the lads with a bit of inside knowledge......what exactly do the players want done differently? Mancini's been straight with Ned and told him he doesn't rate him. What's the problem? I don't agree with that but it's subjective. Ned has to deal with it and move on. It seems to be a much fairer way of dealing with players than Benitez who just ignores the ones he doesn't rate. What the fuck does Lescott want Mancini to do? Risk him when he certainly won't be match fit? What does Ireland want Mancini to do? Mould a side around him when it's clear him and Tevez have problems playing together?

I honestly don't get all this. I very nearly made it at sport but had to accept at 21 years of age it wasn't going to happen. I was bitter and angry and it didn't help that I had people telling me I was good enough and a mistake had been made. If I was in Ned's postion I could well have done the same to air my grievances and thrown all the criticism I could at the person who ultimately made the decision to discredit his opinion and ability to spot a player.

However, that wouldn't have made me right. It would have just made me feel better, but it wouldn't change anything and life goes on. Just because Ned's an intelligent and rational thinking lad does not mean he won't hit out at all and sundry when he think he's been wronged.

Good post as usual, m27.

I agree with some of it.

I also think NEdum is good enough and will be sad to see him go.

To answer your "serious question", it appears to me with my small amount of insight to the dressing room, that all these players have their own personal issues with the manager. But the common denominator seems to be communication.

If a couple of fringe players are whingeing, that's just football.

But when significant numbers are doing it, you end up with an unhappy dressing room and an underperforming squad.

It frightens me to death that so many good players do not like him.

If I was happy with what I could see on the field and with the decisions he was making, I could live with it I suppose.

But the whole picture frightens me to fucking death.

I know you are brighter than the blind Manciobots, m27, and I respect your opinion. You should know now that I love MCFC with my whole heart. And if I like someone or something, I'll say it, and if I don't, I will.

The angry bees are going to go mad at this but you know what I think?

When Peirce was in charge I didn't rate him from day one. The reason was I didn't think he was intelligent enough to manage a premier league club. You need to be a really clever man these days to do the job, no doubt. Chest-beating thickos end up in division 2.

I think Mancini is all style and very little substance. I don't think he's clever enough to manage an English team in the volatile environment City have. I don't think he's a strong enough leader or a good enough communicator.

All he ever fucking says is "it eez imprtant that we play well" or "it eez imprtant that we score".

Ancellotti and Capello have worst English than him but there is substance to what they say. There is no substance to what Mancini says, ever. I'm sure he's honest, I'm sure he's decent, he's a handsome man and he sure as hell was a good player.

I think he's riding on the back of that and he is going to be found out at City this year. The only thing he did right for us was tightening up at the back. I saw nothing else on the pitch to convince me he could make City into winners.

his cv says there is substance to his style, give him time, he's only had 4/5 months with his inherited squad, which whether you like it or not was starting to slide less the odd game v arsenal in the cup.
this season coming is the time to judge him, surely.

 

[Anonymous]

I think it's a bit harsh of you DD to say all he's done is tighten us at the back. It comes across as though you are belittling that. He took Hughes' squad, added Vieira and Johnson and still managed to address the defensive issues in a relatively short space of time. I think that shows a bit more substance than style in my view.

As a manager, he was trophies and again, whilst you can argue the merits of achieving things in Italy, I imagine it still takes substance over style to do that.

I can understand your reservations about communications, but in my view, his handling of the press in this manner is a deliberate tactic. It gives nothing away and he can 'hide' behind his lack of 'eeenglish' as a get of jail free to dodge the incessant snipes about his future. That said, I've no idea how he comes across in the an English dresisng room so accept there could be an issue there. But in response to that, I imagine he will be studying the language very hard over the summer to improve that aspect too.

I think we have a good manager now who I feel is going to build something for us. I base this on his success on Italy, his addressing of the defensive issues and his positivity around a title challenge - I really like that.

Whether I am proved right or wrong is another matter!

 

[BobKowalski]

My first post on this very good thread. Here goes....

1) As 1_Barry_Conlon posted earlier, whilst it is always great to achieve great things with your own homegrown players, our excellent production line has got us the grand total of sweet fuck all in 34 years (my lifetime) so the reaction to us getting rid of our 'local' lads may well be a bit OTT.

2) Ned has clearly been told by Mancini that he is not in his plans. Whilst sad, this is football. He's technically a better defender than Richards, Kompany and Zab and I'd rather he stayed, but Mancini's in charge and that's his decision. So, whilst I think Mancini is wrong on this one because Ned would probably be more than happy to provide back-up and be a good profesional, this doesn't excuse him going on national telly and airing his grievances. Keep it in-house.

3) Bellamy should shut his mouth and show some respect.

4) I've said it before and I'll say it again, whilst Mancini has clearly made mistakes during his time here, the players are coming across as spoilt little whinging backbiters and it seems even Ned, one of the most intelligent footballers you will ever care to meet, has now caught the bug. They're all acting like women in an office with all their sniping and I'm getting pretty sick of it to be honest. It's a shame we haven't got a true leader in the dressing room because I think this would have been nipped in the bud by now.

5) Serious question for the lads with a bit of inside knowledge......what exactly do the players want done differently? Mancini's been straight with Ned and told him he doesn't rate him. What's the problem? I don't agree with that but it's subjective. Ned has to deal with it and move on. It seems to be a much fairer way of dealing with players than Benitez who just ignores the ones he doesn't rate. What the fuck does Lescott want Mancini to do? Risk him when he certainly won't be match fit? What does Ireland want Mancini to do? Mould a side around him when it's clear him and Tevez have problems playing together?

I honestly don't get all this. I very nearly made it at sport but had to accept at 21 years of age it wasn't going to happen. I was bitter and angry and it didn't help that I had people telling me I was good enough and a mistake had been made. If I was in Ned's postion I could well have done the same to air my grievances and thrown all the criticism I could at the person who ultimately made the decision to discredit his opinion and ability to spot a player.

However, that wouldn't have made me right. It would have just made me feel better, but it wouldn't change anything and life goes on. Just because Ned's an intelligent and rational thinking lad does not mean he won't hit out at all and sundry when he think he's been wronged.

Good post as usual, m27.

I agree with some of it.

I also think NEdum is good enough and will be sad to see him go.

To answer your "serious question", it appears to me with my small amount of insight to the dressing room, that all these players have their own personal issues with the manager. But the common denominator seems to be communication.

If a couple of fringe players are whingeing, that's just football.

But when significant numbers are doing it, you end up with an unhappy dressing room and an underperforming squad.

It frightens me to death that so many good players do not like him.

If I was happy with what I could see on the field and with the decisions he was making, I could live with it I suppose.

But the whole picture frightens me to fucking death.

I know you are brighter than the blind Manciobots, m27, and I respect your opinion. You should know now that I love MCFC with my whole heart. And if I like someone or something, I'll say it, and if I don't, I will.

The angry bees are going to go mad at this but you know what I think?

When Peirce was in charge I didn't rate him from day one. The reason was I didn't think he was intelligent enough to manage a premier league club. You need to be a really clever man these days to do the job, no doubt. Chest-beating thickos end up in division 2.

I think Mancini is all style and very little substance. I don't think he's clever enough to manage an English team in the volatile environment City have. I don't think he's a strong enough leader or a good enough communicator.

All he ever fucking says is "it eez imprtant that we play well" or "it eez imprtant that we score".

Ancellotti and Capello have worst English than him but there is substance to what they say. There is no substance to what Mancini says, ever. I'm sure he's honest, I'm sure he's decent, he's a handsome man and he sure as hell was a good player.

I think he's riding on the back of that and he is going to be found out at City this year. The only thing he did right for us was tightening up at the back. I saw nothing else on the pitch to convince me he could make City into winners.

Actually Mancini's mantra (hey I like that) is twofold. The first is concentration. Concentrate, concentrate and concentrate. For the full 90+ minutes. It is lapses in concentration that costs us last minute goals against us. Top teams concentrate from the 1st minute to the last. We do not. It has improved under Mancini but there is still someway to go.

The second is working hard. "We must work hard". "To win things we must work hard" etc etc. The top teams work hard. They work hard in training and not just on the physical side but on the tactical side. It is deeply unpopular for some of the players who and I quote "just want to play footie" but unfortunately top teams don't want to "just play footie". Getting to the top and winning the major prizes requires a lot of hard f**king work. Players who woman about hard "f**king work need to get with the program or be moved on.

So Mancini's mantra in summary is 1) concentration and 2) work hard. I am surprised that you haven't picked up on this but then I suspect you really haven't been paying attention.

 

[m27]

Good post as usual, m27.

I agree with some of it.

I also think NEdum is good enough and will be sad to see him go.

To answer your "serious question", it appears to me with my small amount of insight to the dressing room, that all these players have their own personal issues with the manager. But the common denominator seems to be communication.

If a couple of fringe players are whingeing, that's just football.

But when significant numbers are doing it, you end up with an unhappy dressing room and an underperforming squad.

It frightens me to death that so many good players do not like him.

If I was happy with what I could see on the field and with the decisions he was making, I could live with it I suppose.

But the whole picture frightens me to fucking death.

I know you are brighter than the blind Manciobots, m27, and I respect your opinion. You should know now that I love MCFC with my whole heart. And if I like someone or something, I'll say it, and if I don't, I will.

The angry bees are going to go mad at this but you know what I think?

When Peirce was in charge I didn't rate him from day one. The reason was I didn't think he was intelligent enough to manage a premier league club. You need to be a really clever man these days to do the job, no doubt. Chest-beating thickos end up in division 2.

I think Mancini is all style and very little substance. I don't think he's clever enough to manage an English team in the volatile environment City have. I don't think he's a strong enough leader or a good enough communicator.

All he ever fucking says is "it eez imprtant that we play well" or "it eez imprtant that we score".

Ancellotti and Capello have worst English than him but there is substance to what they say. There is no substance to what Mancini says, ever. I'm sure he's honest, I'm sure he's decent, he's a handsome man and he sure as hell was a good player.

I think he's riding on the back of that and he is going to be found out at City this year. The only thing he did right for us was tightening up at the back. I saw nothing else on the pitch to convince me he could make City into winners.

Oooooh blimey!!!

Totally agree re: Pearce and it was my main criticism of him when he was in charge. Rabble rousing will only get you so far and ulitmately he got found out.

In regard to Mancini, I couldn't possibly say what goes on in the dressing room and on the pitches at Carrington but all reports suggest Mancini is highly technical in his approach so I wouldn't judge his managerial ability on his performance in front of the cameras. We all know how good Wenger is as a manager yet he hardly sets the world alight in interviews and doesn't really say anything of substance, choosing to keep it all in-house.

Time will obviously tell with Mancini and I'd agree he's no Mourinho, Hiddink or even a Van Gaal in terms of a charismatic presence, but we've all had doubts about managers we've worked under, I've hated coaches I've played under, but that's life. I agree it's worrying that so many seem to dislike him and "No smoke without fire" springs to mind but I'd be more worried of his CV wasn't so impressive. Ultimately, that's what's making me side with him at present.

 

[redmizzle]

How can anyone say ned isn't quick enough?, he used to be shoolboy sprinter, finishing 2nd out of the whole country, had a future in athletics, but turned his back on it to concentrate on football.
Don't see why he's never had a decent run at either RB or CB personally, when he's been fit.
coming in for a game here and a game there, or a couple of games, isn't much use for anyone to get any consistency going.

ahhh, there goes another one taking some story for the gospel truth *sigh*<br /><br />-- Tue May 18, 2010 12:02 pm --<br /><br />

I was tired last night when I got the information and posted but here's what Bellamy actually said (from someone who was there):

"Did you fucking see that? You opened your mouth and told people the reason you would not play him was because he could not run fast. If you have got another reason for not playing him, you should fucking say so because he is one of the fucking fastest players in the Premier League. That goal could could not have been scored by someone who couldn't fucking run"

yawn

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Good post as usual, m27.

I agree with some of it.

I also think NEdum is good enough and will be sad to see him go.

To answer your "serious question", it appears to me with my small amount of insight to the dressing room, that all these players have their own personal issues with the manager. But the common denominator seems to be communication.

If a couple of fringe players are whingeing, that's just football.

But when significant numbers are doing it, you end up with an unhappy dressing room and an underperforming squad.

It frightens me to death that so many good players do not like him.

If I was happy with what I could see on the field and with the decisions he was making, I could live with it I suppose.

But the whole picture frightens me to fucking death.

I know you are brighter than the blind Manciobots, m27, and I respect your opinion. You should know now that I love MCFC with my whole heart. And if I like someone or something, I'll say it, and if I don't, I will.

The angry bees are going to go mad at this but you know what I think?

When Peirce was in charge I didn't rate him from day one. The reason was I didn't think he was intelligent enough to manage a premier league club. You need to be a really clever man these days to do the job, no doubt. Chest-beating thickos end up in division 2.

I think Mancini is all style and very little substance. I don't think he's clever enough to manage an English team in the volatile environment City have. I don't think he's a strong enough leader or a good enough communicator.

All he ever fucking says is "it eez imprtant that we play well" or "it eez imprtant that we score".

Ancellotti and Capello have worst English than him but there is substance to what they say. There is no substance to what Mancini says, ever. I'm sure he's honest, I'm sure he's decent, he's a handsome man and he sure as hell was a good player.

I think he's riding on the back of that and he is going to be found out at City this year. The only thing he did right for us was tightening up at the back. I saw nothing else on the pitch to convince me he could make City into winners.

Actually Mancini's mantra (hey I like that) is twofold. The first is concentration. Concentrate, concentrate and concentrate. For the full 90+ minutes. It is lapses in concentration that costs us last minute goals against us. Top teams concentrate from the 1st minute to the last. We do not. It has improved under Mancini but there is still someway to go.

The second is working hard. "We must work hard". "To win things we must work hard" etc etc. The top teams work hard. They work hard in training and not just on the physical side but on the tactical side. It is deeply unpopular for some of the players who and I quote "just want to play footie" but unfortunately top teams don't want to "just play footie". Getting to the top and winning the major prizes requires a lot of hard f**king work. Players who woman about hard "f**king work need to get with the program or be moved on.

So Mancini's mantra in summary is 1) concentration and 2) work hard. I am surprised that you haven't picked up on this but then I suspect you really haven't been paying attention.

What, so you need to work hard and concentrate to win matches?

Bloody hell. Great insight, Bobby.

Thanks for getting the debate on track everyone, by the way.<br /><br />-- Tue May 18, 2010 11:17 am --<br /><br />

I think it's a bit harsh of you DD to say all he's done is tighten us at the back. It comes across as though you are belittling that. He took Hughes' squad, added Vieira and Johnson and still managed to address the defensive issues in a relatively short space of time. I think that shows a bit more substance than style in my view.

As a manager, he was trophies and again, whilst you can argue the merits of achieving things in Italy, I imagine it still takes substance over style to do that.

I can understand your reservations about communications, but in my view, his handling of the press in this manner is a deliberate tactic. It gives nothing away and he can 'hide' behind his lack of 'eeenglish' as a get of jail free to dodge the incessant snipes about his future. That said, I've no idea how he comes across in the an English dresisng room so accept there could be an issue there. But in response to that, I imagine he will be studying the language very hard over the summer to improve that aspect too.

I think we have a good manager now who I feel is going to build something for us. I base this on his success on Italy, his addressing of the defensive issues and his positivity around a title challenge - I really like that.

Whether I am proved right or wrong is another matter!

Again, thanks for debating sensibly, strongbow.

I'm not belittling him tightening us up, it was hugely important.

But I haven't seen anything beyond that, that's my point.

I agree that it's good he's raised the bar in terms of expectations. At least he's made it clear to us all where he and we stand.

I totally agree that a title challenge is what we should be aiming for.

 

[BobKowalski]

What, so you need to work hard and concentrate to win matches?

Bloody hell. Great insight, Bobby.

Yes it is. Shame that our players are too busy whining about working too hard or strolling round the pitch not closing people down in the last minute or so isn't it?

It is also telling that we have a 60 plus page thread on a player that has yet to make any real impact on the first team under any manager let alone Mancini. Perhaps some fans, as well as Ned, need to start adjusting to the new reality as well.

 

[hello]

Apart from the few pages of dick measuring theres some good points on both sides regarding Ned.

However it is clear that he hasn't progressed as much has we hoped, personally I still rate him above a number of other defenders at the club, Zab, Richards, Toure, Boyata (Age is very much on his side though), however its evident that both Hughes and Mancini see things differently. they get paid huge ammounts of money at work with the players in training so I'll trust their judgement.

However I dont understand how a supposingly bright lad can think its a good idea to slag of his boss on national TV. If he wants to go then so be it but there was no need to try to engineer a move publically. He signed a long term lucartive contract and hopefully the club wont be doing the buyer any favours and accepting a lower fee to allow him to match his wages. If he wants first team football to push for Nigeria callup then fine, but he will have to take a step down to get it, and that should be at his expense rather than the expense of the club.

 

[horlock]

I will be gutted to see the Chief go, especially as he's a blue himself. In my opinion he's better than Ricahrds.

 

[blue banks]

All he ever fucking says is "it eez imprtant that we play well" or "it eez imprtant that we score".

i think that's a bit harsh, Didsy. there's no way he's going to give the press an in-depth answer to a question, with the risk of it not coming across properly. he's not going to get into a comprehensive rundown of his plans/methods/opinions in english - that would be a minefiled for him, and the press would pick up on every single inaccuracy and spin it. I'd love to hear him talk in italian, getting across his ideas - that would be so liberating for him an i think you'd see a guy who has lots of really good ideas and solid plans on how to play and treat players. i think it's unfair to base some of your doubts of him as a manager on how he speaks in english and what he chooses to say.