Negative players or negative tactics...

[Anonymous]

LOL @ writing the manager off and his style of football. He's been here, what, less than 3 months?

We've got a new manager who's in a new league with a new squad, so to think that what we've got now is gonna be as good as it gets after such a short space of time is fucking idiotic. It's gonna take time to get things right, but it's already plain to see we're a much more organised outfit. Under Mancini I feel that it's only a matter of time before we really get things right, whereas which is in stark contrast to Hughes' tenure when evry game I felt as though it was gonna fall apart (at spurs it finally did).

Yes, yesterday Mancini got the balance wrong and we didn't set up correctly from the start, but I think it was just a case of mis-judgement as opposed to purposely setting up negatively. At least he changed it and put RSC on although I s'pose that was the least he could do

To me yesterday showed how desperately we need a centre midfielder who can really impose himself on the game. Zabaleta is a flimsy midfielder and de Jong just doesn't impose himself enough. As a pair they seem to do a lot of running around and chasing the ball but don't ever really come up with anything that might trouble the opposition. I think Barry is capable of this, in fact I know he is but we need a good solid partner to help him out, cos de Jong ahsn't done so for a long time.

I also thought we were piss poor down the right. I gave SWP, Micah and Bridge the benefit of the doubt by syaing that their Miami trip might do them good but they let us down yesterday, particularly Micah and SWP (assuming Bridge's injury was legit. Micah seemed to be doing ok again but was poor against Chelsea and really poor yesterday, for me he's got til the end of the year to really prove that he's up to the job otherwise I'd bring a proper right back in and relegate him to a squad palyer for now.

Pretty much bang on mate, especially the first paragraph.

 

[moomba]

I think a lot of parallels can be drawn between the way we play under Mancini and the way Liverpool play under Benitez.

I'm going to out on a limb here and say about Mancini what I said about Benitez two or three years ago....he'll never win the Premiership playing football like that. Not whilst Wenger and Fergie are still in their respective jobs...

I'll take the champions league/FA Cup/2nd in the league in the next three years.

 

[cleavers]

With respect BK - at the root of it all DD or myself are saying is that we have a squad which has for various reasons underperformed all season. People are contradicting that by saying the squad itself isn't that good, or is unbalanced. In both instances or totally disagree.

We're short on a box to box midfield player, and a solid right and left back. But we still have two very very good if not top class players for each position.

The "balanced and cohesive unit" which you talk about will not come from adding or subtracting more players, it will come from the manager knowing his best XI, and using them to the best of their capabilities, on a consistent basis...

I still think that its because the squad is unbalanced that both managers have struggled.

Hughes tried attacking, and we leaked goals, he tried defending and we didn't score enough. Mancini has decided to sort the defence, which he largely has, but without the link in midfield, half the time we end up playing hoof ball (and we did this under MH too) to get it forward.

The current midfield players can't bring the ball forward quickly enough to link play from defence to attack, so we end up with the strikers coming back to get it, and then not being forward if we get it there in the end.

The centre midfield all have qualities, De Jong is a good stopper, Ireland is creatively minded, Barry is cool under pressure, Zabaleta is purely there as back up for me, Vieira was a short term measure which backfired because 1. he was injured, and 2. he got himself a stupid suspension (and 3. he's probably had his day, though like Hamman I still think he can add something to it all). Getting the right midfield is the key, and I don't think we have it, and Mancini knew this from the first day. January is always difficult to bring in the right quality, and I don't think there was much he could do then.

Finding a box to box player that is the standard for where we want to be isn't going to be easy, there aren't many around, and those that are, are wanted by clubs better able (currently) to sign them (and I don't mean financially).

What's a real pity is that we spent so much collecting all these players, and yet we seem no nearer to putting together a team that can compete consistently, and that once again we will rebuild a squad in the summer.

 

[Anonymous]

To listen to some of you on here is just mind boggling!!! How we're not where we should be, how we haven't progressed as we should, how we're never going to qualify for the Champs League, etc, etc

The fact is that fourth position is in our own hands. Our best ever Premier League position is a realistic possibility.

And still, all some can do is see the negative side :-(

 

[flb]

To listen to some of you on here is just mind boggling!!! How we're not where we should be, how we haven't progressed as we should, how we're never going to qualify for the Champs League, etc, etc

The fact is that fourth position is in our own hands. Our best ever Premier League position is a realistic possibility.


And still, all some can do is see the negative side :-(

I want it and I want it now merchants

Slagging off an extremely capable manager who is doing a good job
without dipping properly into the transfer market

 

[cleavers]

Not sure who you are referring to cheesy, but I don't really see this as a negative topic at all, just a decent debate without all the normal hissyness that goes on after an indifferent result.

The original question was a valid one, for me the answer is in the players we have acquired, we are still missing some vital ingredients for me, and RM can see that, and is struggling to set up the team to work.

Someone said that the Chelsea win papered over the cracks, and it did for me, great win that it was, we actually didn't play that well, we got a lucky equaliser having been outplayed, and while we did play well for a portion of the second half, Chelsea's indiscipline helped hugely in us winning. Yesterday's first half was probably our worst performance this season, while the second was probably one of our best.

The one thing both managers this season have in common is indifferent results, with largely the same set of players, and better organised or not, Mancini is still managing teams that are underperforming.

 

[gman07]

What i took with me from yesterday was the second half... it was a team effort getting that draw... everyone played their heart out to get us the points but sunderland and especially Gordon played really well... I really enjoyed seeing the team effort and the need to score in second half... apart from their goal they didnt put Given under much pressure and didnt have much to show for against our defence...

But our second half is what we as fans should look at... our players really fought hard and well to score and to me it showed they realised the situation the first half put us in... they totally changed their attitude and we had enough scoring opportunities to be able to win the match... but thats football for you... there is always a team to play against and they can have a good day...

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

The one thing both managers this season have in common is indifferent results, with largely the same set of players, and better organised or not, Mancini is still managing teams that are underperforming.

But he's only been managing this team for about 11 weeks. Think about hughes' style of management and how different it must be for the players to adapt to Mancini's style and what sort of an affect this will have midway through a season. Add to this that the manager is finding his way in a new league and is still trying to find his best team which is why he's constantly changing things.

Despite all this the results have been decent to good and I am confident that if we give him a chance they will only get better. To merely state that 'Mancini is still managing teams that are underperforming' as though he is doing a below par job, is fucking stupid

 

[cleavers]

To merely state that 'Mancini is still managing teams that are underperforming' as though he is doing a below par job, is fucking stupid

Thanks for that, I'll return to "fucking stupid" corner now.


Meanwhile you might want to read some of the rest of the thread, before calling people "fucking stupid".

 

[masterwig]

When was the last time we played really well for 90 minutes?

People were raving about the win at Chelsea but in the first half we played as if we were waiting for them to score before we made any real attacking moves. Yesterday we were awful in the first half.

We've won two games in eight and I don't see much sign of improvement. We HAVE to go and win at Fulham to show we mean business and can go to mid-table teams and boss a game from start to finish. If we can show a real dominant display then I'll have more faith. But at the moment we look okay on the counter-attack such as at Chelsea where we robbed them in all honesty. In games where teams don't try and pen us in whilst pushing forward in huge numbers like Chelsea did we seem to lack control of the pace of the game.

Players like Barry are renowned for putting a foot on the ball and controlling things. It is time he started to boss things a bit more. I didn't like seeing Zabba in midfield because he's too mad to boss a game. Runs around like a maniac. Ad De Jong is a tackling/interception machine but not much of a ball player.