Nelson Mandela RIP

[Indestructable]

A minutes round of applause tomorrow is complete balls, is there a panel that decides which politicians get this and which ones don't?

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

A minutes round of applause tomorrow is complete balls, is there a panel that decides which politicians get this and which ones don't?

Oh my fucking Lord. There is a never ending wave of it.

Are you seriously so self centred that you can't take 1 minute out of your life to applaud one of the most important people to have graced this earth.

 

[dazdon]

Would the people calling him a terrorist have the bollocks to stand in a room of South African people tonight and speak their mind?

Can you guarantee that I won't be Necklaced?

Perfect response to a childish question.

Have they wheeled Elton out yet?

Bono has already been on TV feeding his face at the expense of the death of an old man.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Would the people calling him a terrorist have the bollocks to stand in a room of South African people tonight and speak their mind?

Can you guarantee that I won't be Necklaced?

Perfect response to a childish question.

Have they wheeled Elton out yet?

Bono has already been on TV feeding his face at the expense of the death of an old man.

You have a seriously bitter view of the world.

 

[Bilboblue]

A minutes round of applause tomorrow is complete balls, is there a panel that decides which politicians get this and which ones don't?

Oh my fucking Lord. There is a never ending wave of it.

Are you seriously so self centred that you can't take 1 minute out of your life to applaud one of the most important people to have graced this earth.

I won't be applauding him at the game tomorrow, call me what you want but I cannot and will not celebrate the life of a terrorist.

And yet again, stop telling people what they should be doing, that is YOUR view.

 

[BimboBob]

Would the people calling him a terrorist have the bollocks to stand in a room of South African people tonight and speak their mind?

Can you guarantee that I won't be Necklaced?

S.A is a brutal place. Less brutal than it would have been had Mandela not lived the life he did.

I can guarantee you'd know the love his people had for him.

I know a few South Africans and their views on him are mixed. To say that S.A is a less brutal place because of him is a bit wide of the mark. It was a brutal place, then became a very brutal place due to his chums at the ANC, before settling back into the brutal place we love today. It's worth pointing out that in the 43 years of apartheid some 21,000 people were killed of which 518 have been accredited to the South African security forces. The rest?

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

A minutes round of applause tomorrow is complete balls, is there a panel that decides which politicians get this and which ones don't?

Oh my fucking Lord. There is a never ending wave of it.

Are you seriously so self centred that you can't take 1 minute out of your life to applaud one of the most important people to have graced this earth.

I won't be applauding him at the game tomorrow, call me what you want but I cannot and will not celebrate the life of a terrorist.

And yet again, stop telling people what they should be doing, that is YOUR view.

If that is your view, fine. I don't agree with it but at least your decision is yours and you've mad your mind up.

I asked him a question. I didn't tell him to applaud.

 

[scotty123]

Can you guarantee that I won't be Necklaced?

Perfect response to a childish question.

Have they wheeled Elton out yet?

Bono has already been on TV feeding his face at the expense of the death of an old man.

You have a seriously bitter view of the world.

Have you eaten or been to the toilet yet today, its about time you went for a slash

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

A minutes round of applause tomorrow is complete balls, is there a panel that decides which politicians get this and which ones don't?

Oh my fucking Lord. There is a never ending wave of it.

Are you seriously so self centred that you can't take 1 minute out of your life to applaud one of the most important people to have graced this earth.

Best leave them to their sorry little hatefest mate.
You can only give folks the facts.
Sadly you can't give them the intellectual apparatus with which to appreciate them.
If folk choose not to respect Mandela's passing, then that is up to them.
I'm out of here now, as all I can see is bitterness and bickering.

 

[blueish swede]

Sorry this is a long post, there is so much fuckwittery to be opposed.

I think you will find that more people died at the hands of the ANC than were killed by their own Government. Still, let's not ruin a thread by posting facts eh?

In what way is that a fact? Child mortality in the Bantu population under Apartheid was 50%*. A mortality rate not only caused by but the direct aim of the Apartheid system implemented by the white minority. Do you understand this? Do you understand that the Apartheid government conciously created conditions where nearly half of all black children born, were to die before the age of sixteen as a method of population control? Do these children make it in to your statistics? If not, why not?
*”Surplus people and expendable children: The structure of apartheid and the mortality crisis in South Africa.” Thomas R. De Gregori, William Darity. The Review of Black Political Economy
Spring 1987, Volume 15, Issue 4.

You could be describing the plight of a large part of our population in the post-austerity UK.

You have to be joking? Are the British army murdering school children in the streets like the South African forces did? See the above paper on the effect of Apartheid on child mortality, also search for “Soweto Uprising” alternatively “June 16th uprising” and explain, from you finely developed moral conscience how you would not oppose such a regime with every medium at your disposal.

Spoiler

Of course this is the protest by Soweto school children against being forced to learn Afrikaans in school - 176 children were shot and murdered and an unknown number injured by the South African security forces in June 1976

He signed off on the deaths of innocent people, lots of them
Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights

-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983
-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985
-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988
-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986
-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead
-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987
-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988
Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

I have already mentioned that I was one of the persons who helped to form Umkhonto. I, and the others who started the organisation, did so for two reasons. Firstly, we believed that as a result of Government policy, violence by the African people had become inevitable, and that unless responsible leadership was given to canalise and control the feelings of our people, there would be outbreaks of terrorism which would produce an intensity of bitterness and hostility between the various races of this country which is not produced even by war. Secondly, we felt that without violence there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy. All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or to defy the government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer violence with violence.
But the violence which we chose to adopt was not terrorism. We who formed Umkhonto were all members of the African National Congress, and had behind us the ANC tradition of non-violence and negotiation as a means of solving political disputes. We believe that South Africa belongs to all the people who live in it, and not to one group, be it black or white. We did not want an interracial war, and tried to avoid it to the last minute. If the court is in doubt about this, it will be seen that the whole history of our organisation bears out what I have said, and what I will subsequently say, when I describe the tactics which Umkhonto decided to adopt.

Mandela's speech at his trial is on line at http://audio.theguardian.tv/sys-audio/Guardian/audio/2007/04/20/Mandelafinal.mp3

To those who condemn Mandela for resorting to violence against a violent regime I have a question. Unfortunately it is a two part question, which judging from the posts may tax many of you beyond your abilities:

One of the foremost leaders of the struggle in South Africa founded the Black Consciousness Movement. The movement had a slogan that became very famous “Black is beautiful”. Inspired by Gandhi, he preached non-violent resistance to Apartheid and that black people should learn about the history of their own peoples and not the European based history taught in schools: That black people in South Africa had a right to be proud of who they were. His philosophy led to the strike by school children in Soweto against the compulsory teaching of Afrikaans in Soweto I mentioned above. The question I have is

i) Will the founder oft the Black Consciousness Movement , Stephen Bantu Beko, attend Nelson Mandela's funeral?
ii) If not, why not?

For what it is worth my opinion is that the only truly legitimate use of violence is when people oppose the undemocratic, oppressive regime in their own country to overthrow that regime and establish a democratic form of government with universal emancipation. This is exactly what happened in South Africa. If I am ever oppressed I hope there is a Nelson Mandela there to fight for me.